Another think on thief skills
Dec 10, 2019 12:57:42 GMT -6
Vile Traveller and Scott Anderson like this
Post by Starbeard on Dec 10, 2019 12:57:42 GMT -6
I've been rethinking how to handle thief skills as I consider putting them into the game I'm running for my nephews.
I've looked at reordering them, changing the die types (d6, 2d6, 2d10, x-chance-in-20, etc.), combining them into a single catch-all "thief skills" saving throw, adding ability modifiers and/or full ability scores to the chance of success, you name it; plus various combinations of all of them. Nothing has really spoken to me enough to embrace.
For me, it's important that thief skills: 1) are simple to adjudicate, using a few modifier as possible; 2) don't turn the fun part of exploration into a dice rolling board game; 3) don't bar other classes from attempting the same sorts of activities, but still make thieves something special; and 4) don't feel like they've been turned into a "d20-ism."
(The last one is just a personal thing for no good reason. I've already played enough games that boil everything down to a "roll 1d20+mods and get this number or higher," and while it's a perfectly usable system, I like being able to give the table something that feels more arcane and noticeably marks itself out as something that isn't WOTC D&D. Humans are creatures of habit, and rules presentation is something that I think helps put people in the mindset you want for the game.)
Anyway, after thinking about the time-tested, old-school mantra, "Anyone can hide, but thieves can hide in shadows," I think I've struck something that I like. I won't need to change the percentages to anything else, I won't need to give low-level thieves a boost from being terrible, and none of the skills will dominate the game or take away from other classes. My solution is to treat thief skills as mystic ninja abilities!
Here are my thoughts:
Open Locks ("Pulling a Fonz"): Anyone with the appropriate tools may attempt to open a basic, normal lock, with a 1% chance of success per character level. Thieves, however, open normal locks using the same percentages as the climb sheer surfaces skill.
In addition to this, thieves have a near-mystical ability to open even those locks that would otherwise be impossible to other characters. These include not only bizarre and sophisticated locks that would normally be immune to picking attempts, but also locks that are physically inaccessible, such as doors that are locked from the inside, or barred or dead-bolted, or where the lock is in some way covered or hidden. This ability uses the standard pick locks skill, and requires special thieves tools.
Find Traps: The ability for a thief to find traps is a passive skill much like the elf’s ability to notice nearby secret doors. In that respect, it might be best to rename it notice traps. Obviously, the thief may still actively search the room just like any other character after this ability has been checked secretly by the referee. It is suggested that if rolls are made to find traps, then the referee should base them on searching for secret doors: most traps will be found on a roll of 1 in 6 each round of searching (or 2 in 6 for traps easier to spot), with thieves have double the chance of success.
Alternately, some traps are so difficult to detect that they must be searched for bodily—by running the hands gently across the floor, or blindly fingering the underside of a chest’s lid or whatnot—and in these cases the referee is encouraged to use the rules for surprise: when checking for these traps, characters will “surprise” the trap (i.e., discover it without actually triggering it) on a 1 or 1-2 in 6, while thieves have double the chance; failure to “surprise” the trap means that the trap should require another normal surprise check against the searching character, with “surprise” indicating that the trap has been found the hard way, by springing it!
Remove Traps: Much like open locks, this skill indicates the thief’s ability to safely dismantle the mechanism of a trap that would otherwise be impossible to do, either because it is too small or because the mechanism is physically protected or hidden, or placed in such a way that if cannot be accessed without setting it off first (e.g., a smooth floor with a pit trap underneath, a door trap that is hidden entirely behind the door, etc.). The rule of thumb here is that if the thief can reach any part of the trap mechanism or trigger, then the trap may be temporarily or permanently removed.
Pick Pockets: This skill works just fine.
Move Silently: When characters attempt to move silently, then they will have the chance to surprise monsters. This is usually expressed as a chance in 6, adjusted for so many various factors such as lighting, disposition and awareness of the monsters, armor worn and equipment carried, type of flooring, ambient noise, etc., that no hard and fast rule can be given. The referee must simply weigh the factors, determine whether quiet movement is allowable and whether this will alter the chance of surprise, and roll from there.
In situations where surprise is possible, thieves are twice as likely to do so when operating alone or entirely with other thieves. Additionally, they may use the move silently skill to move without making any noise whatsoever, regardless of any of the other environmental factors mentioned above. It is imperative that the referee and players discern the difference between normal sneaking and the thief’s strange ability to move silently: a thief can, if his roll is successful, travel across a floor of dry leaves, in creaky leather armor, ill-ridden with a ferocious cough, and overloaded with a large sack full of coins and silverware, and no sharp eared creature in the cosmos could possibly hear his perambulation because he makes no noise whatsoever!
Climb Sheer Surfaces: Thief is the thief’s ability to climb surfaces that would otherwise be too slippery, steep or smooth for normal characters to attempt, or to climb normal surfaces while fully encumbered. Because this is one of the thief’s strange and mystical skills, it is not affected by encumbrance.
Any surface that is rough enough for any character to attempt may be climbed automatically by thieves so long as they are unencumbered.
Hide in Shadows ("Doing a Waldo"): Attempts to hide should affect surprise rolls similarly to moving silently. If players declare that they are hiding somewhere, the referee should weigh the factors of the situation to determine whether attempts to do so will affect the chance that the party gains surprise.
Thieves, however, may hide in plain sight using the hide in shadows skill. “In plain sight” still implies that there is something by way of a mundane feature in the thief’s surroundings, such as a shadow, piece of furniture, or bush. If attempting to hide in shadows in a fully lit room with no furniture, or on a completely flat desert plain with no vegetation, a successful skill roll merely indicates that the thief has achieved a round of surprise, but cannot remain undiscovered.
Hear Noise: This is just fine, although I might break it into a d12 so that thieves get smaller, more frequent improvements.
Read Languages: This is just fine, although I may just give levels extra languages per so many levels.
I've looked at reordering them, changing the die types (d6, 2d6, 2d10, x-chance-in-20, etc.), combining them into a single catch-all "thief skills" saving throw, adding ability modifiers and/or full ability scores to the chance of success, you name it; plus various combinations of all of them. Nothing has really spoken to me enough to embrace.
For me, it's important that thief skills: 1) are simple to adjudicate, using a few modifier as possible; 2) don't turn the fun part of exploration into a dice rolling board game; 3) don't bar other classes from attempting the same sorts of activities, but still make thieves something special; and 4) don't feel like they've been turned into a "d20-ism."
(The last one is just a personal thing for no good reason. I've already played enough games that boil everything down to a "roll 1d20+mods and get this number or higher," and while it's a perfectly usable system, I like being able to give the table something that feels more arcane and noticeably marks itself out as something that isn't WOTC D&D. Humans are creatures of habit, and rules presentation is something that I think helps put people in the mindset you want for the game.)
Anyway, after thinking about the time-tested, old-school mantra, "Anyone can hide, but thieves can hide in shadows," I think I've struck something that I like. I won't need to change the percentages to anything else, I won't need to give low-level thieves a boost from being terrible, and none of the skills will dominate the game or take away from other classes. My solution is to treat thief skills as mystic ninja abilities!
Here are my thoughts:
Open Locks ("Pulling a Fonz"): Anyone with the appropriate tools may attempt to open a basic, normal lock, with a 1% chance of success per character level. Thieves, however, open normal locks using the same percentages as the climb sheer surfaces skill.
In addition to this, thieves have a near-mystical ability to open even those locks that would otherwise be impossible to other characters. These include not only bizarre and sophisticated locks that would normally be immune to picking attempts, but also locks that are physically inaccessible, such as doors that are locked from the inside, or barred or dead-bolted, or where the lock is in some way covered or hidden. This ability uses the standard pick locks skill, and requires special thieves tools.
Find Traps: The ability for a thief to find traps is a passive skill much like the elf’s ability to notice nearby secret doors. In that respect, it might be best to rename it notice traps. Obviously, the thief may still actively search the room just like any other character after this ability has been checked secretly by the referee. It is suggested that if rolls are made to find traps, then the referee should base them on searching for secret doors: most traps will be found on a roll of 1 in 6 each round of searching (or 2 in 6 for traps easier to spot), with thieves have double the chance of success.
Alternately, some traps are so difficult to detect that they must be searched for bodily—by running the hands gently across the floor, or blindly fingering the underside of a chest’s lid or whatnot—and in these cases the referee is encouraged to use the rules for surprise: when checking for these traps, characters will “surprise” the trap (i.e., discover it without actually triggering it) on a 1 or 1-2 in 6, while thieves have double the chance; failure to “surprise” the trap means that the trap should require another normal surprise check against the searching character, with “surprise” indicating that the trap has been found the hard way, by springing it!
Remove Traps: Much like open locks, this skill indicates the thief’s ability to safely dismantle the mechanism of a trap that would otherwise be impossible to do, either because it is too small or because the mechanism is physically protected or hidden, or placed in such a way that if cannot be accessed without setting it off first (e.g., a smooth floor with a pit trap underneath, a door trap that is hidden entirely behind the door, etc.). The rule of thumb here is that if the thief can reach any part of the trap mechanism or trigger, then the trap may be temporarily or permanently removed.
Pick Pockets: This skill works just fine.
Move Silently: When characters attempt to move silently, then they will have the chance to surprise monsters. This is usually expressed as a chance in 6, adjusted for so many various factors such as lighting, disposition and awareness of the monsters, armor worn and equipment carried, type of flooring, ambient noise, etc., that no hard and fast rule can be given. The referee must simply weigh the factors, determine whether quiet movement is allowable and whether this will alter the chance of surprise, and roll from there.
In situations where surprise is possible, thieves are twice as likely to do so when operating alone or entirely with other thieves. Additionally, they may use the move silently skill to move without making any noise whatsoever, regardless of any of the other environmental factors mentioned above. It is imperative that the referee and players discern the difference between normal sneaking and the thief’s strange ability to move silently: a thief can, if his roll is successful, travel across a floor of dry leaves, in creaky leather armor, ill-ridden with a ferocious cough, and overloaded with a large sack full of coins and silverware, and no sharp eared creature in the cosmos could possibly hear his perambulation because he makes no noise whatsoever!
Climb Sheer Surfaces: Thief is the thief’s ability to climb surfaces that would otherwise be too slippery, steep or smooth for normal characters to attempt, or to climb normal surfaces while fully encumbered. Because this is one of the thief’s strange and mystical skills, it is not affected by encumbrance.
Any surface that is rough enough for any character to attempt may be climbed automatically by thieves so long as they are unencumbered.
Hide in Shadows ("Doing a Waldo"): Attempts to hide should affect surprise rolls similarly to moving silently. If players declare that they are hiding somewhere, the referee should weigh the factors of the situation to determine whether attempts to do so will affect the chance that the party gains surprise.
Thieves, however, may hide in plain sight using the hide in shadows skill. “In plain sight” still implies that there is something by way of a mundane feature in the thief’s surroundings, such as a shadow, piece of furniture, or bush. If attempting to hide in shadows in a fully lit room with no furniture, or on a completely flat desert plain with no vegetation, a successful skill roll merely indicates that the thief has achieved a round of surprise, but cannot remain undiscovered.
Hear Noise: This is just fine, although I might break it into a d12 so that thieves get smaller, more frequent improvements.
Read Languages: This is just fine, although I may just give levels extra languages per so many levels.
