graelth
Level 4 Theurgist
Posts: 111 
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Post by graelth on Nov 1, 2019 16:49:18 GMT -6
I am curious if anybody reads the class weapon restrictions as applying only to magical weapons. For example, I am considering allowing any class to wield any non-magical weapon, and if they pick up a magical weapon that is not allowed, it is treated as a mundane weapon while they are using it.
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Post by Finarvyn on Nov 1, 2019 17:15:11 GMT -6
The thing is this -- if you use the LBB "all weapons do 1d6 damage" rule then restrictions for regular weapons becomes unimportant. I like the fact that only certain classes can use certain magic items. Magic-users are the only ones that can use certain wands and such, and fighters are the only ones that can use certain kickass swords. Works for me.  |
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Post by Scott Anderson on Nov 1, 2019 17:18:43 GMT -6
The thing is this -- if you use the LBB "all weapons do 1d6 damage" rule then restrictions for regular weapons becomes unimportant. I like the fact that only certain classes can use certain magic items. Magic-users are the only ones that can use certain wands and such, and fighters are the only ones that can use certain kickass swords. Works for me. That doesn’t make sense. Is not a mace different from a sword? Different from a dagger or a flail? They have fundamentally different properties and even though they are not modeled by game mechanics, you can’t chop a door down with a dagger or hide a flail under your cloak. |
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Post by talysman on Nov 1, 2019 17:25:50 GMT -6
I've hear of people doing that. The closest I come is: - People without training in a weapon attack as if only Level 1 and can't use special weapon features, like entangle with a whip, &c. (Considering also treating target armor as one degree worse or -2 penalty.)
- People who buy a weapon at character creation are considered trained and don't suffer the untrained penalty. Also applies to characters who pay for training later on using the spell research rules.
- Clerics have to make reaction rolls when they renew spells if they've used an edged weapon or missile weapon. (does not apply to Chaotic clerics/heretics.)
- Regardless of training, magic weapons have no magic in the hands of the wrong class.
Fighters never need special training in a weapon. They just need to see it used once or twice. |
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graelth
Level 4 Theurgist
Posts: 111
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Post by graelth on Nov 1, 2019 17:32:13 GMT -6
The thing is this -- if you use the LBB "all weapons do 1d6 damage" rule then restrictions for regular weapons becomes unimportant. I like the fact that only certain classes can use certain magic items. Magic-users are the only ones that can use certain wands and such, and fighters are the only ones that can use certain kickass swords. Works for me. True, but bows do 1d6 damage at a distance. It might be significant to allow magic-users and clerics to use bows. Also has implications for armor. Are the armor restrictions for magic-users just referring to magical armor? |
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graelth
Level 4 Theurgist
Posts: 111
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Post by graelth on Nov 1, 2019 17:33:53 GMT -6
The thing is this -- if you use the LBB "all weapons do 1d6 damage" rule then restrictions for regular weapons becomes unimportant. I like the fact that only certain classes can use certain magic items. Magic-users are the only ones that can use certain wands and such, and fighters are the only ones that can use certain kickass swords. Works for me. That doesn’t make sense. Is not a mace different from a sword? Different from a dagger or a flail? They have fundamentally different properties and even though they are not modeled by game mechanics, you can’t chop a door down with a dagger or hide a flail under your cloak. Sure, they are different, but what's your point? They can all kill a person equally well. |
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Post by Scott Anderson on Nov 1, 2019 17:59:02 GMT -6
They all do it in different ways. They have different abilities - they just not codified.
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graelth
Level 4 Theurgist
Posts: 111
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Post by graelth on Nov 1, 2019 18:05:48 GMT -6
They all do it in different ways. They have different abilities - they just not codified. Then I'd recommend Supplement 1: Greyhawk for you! I prefer d6 for everything like the White Box says, but maybe I'm weird... |
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Post by derv on Nov 1, 2019 18:12:43 GMT -6
I am curious if anybody reads the class weapon restrictions as applying only to magical weapons. For example, I am considering allowing any class to wield any non-magical weapon, and if they pick up a magical weapon that is not allowed, it is treated as a mundane weapon while they are using it. I use the weapon restrictions in my games and have little problem with them. It really comes down to your game world rationale. What makes sense to you. Why would a magical sword cease to be magical in the hands of a magic user? As a restriction the weapon limits really only have consequence when you are considering magic items. This is compounded if you actually roll for treasure on the M&T tables. 40% of the magic items are weapons and armor, all of which are readily usable by fighters. Only 5% of this total are miscellaneous weapons. Of that 5%, 20% are daggers (usable by MU's) and 20% are hammers and maces (usable by clerics). That's 1% of all magic items in each of those categories- basically slim pickings. Roll a one with your percentile dice |
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graelth
Level 4 Theurgist
Posts: 111
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Post by graelth on Nov 1, 2019 18:29:45 GMT -6
I am curious if anybody reads the class weapon restrictions as applying only to magical weapons. For example, I am considering allowing any class to wield any non-magical weapon, and if they pick up a magical weapon that is not allowed, it is treated as a mundane weapon while they are using it. I use the weapon restrictions in my games and have little problem with them. It really comes down to your game world rationale. What makes sense to you. Why would a magical sword cease to be magical in the hands of a magic user? As a restriction the weapon limits really only have consequence when you are considering magic items. This is compounded if you actually roll for treasure on the M&T tables. 40% of the magic items are weapons and armor, all of which are readily usable by fighters. Only 5% of this total are miscellaneous weapons. Of that 5%, 20% are daggers (usable by MU's) and 20% are hammers and maces (usable by clerics). That's 1% of all magic items in each of those categories- basically slim pickings. Roll a one with your percentile dice A good question! There is something weird about 3LBB magic items in general... swords are actually intelligent, but even things like the magical hammer only fully show their worth in certain hands. I figure that magic items really come to life when they sense they have the right owner. |
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Post by captainjapan on Nov 1, 2019 20:14:30 GMT -6
I am curious if anybody reads the class weapon restrictions as applying only to magical weapons. For example, I am considering allowing any class to wield any non-magical weapon, and if they pick up a magical weapon that is not allowed, it is treated as a mundane weapon while they are using it. I would suggest the opposite; allow anybody to pick up and use any magical weapon. You could rationalize it by saying that magical weapons strike with unnatural ease as if self directed. They require no proficiency on the part of the wielder. On the other hand, a person must be trained in even the most basic use of normal arms. These are the purview of the fighter, who is already a veteran at level one. The cleric and magic user are trained in other bookish pursuits. |
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Post by Zakharan on Nov 2, 2019 2:12:10 GMT -6
Previously, I ran the game as-written; Magic-Users can only use daggers of any description, etc. But with the changes made to combat recently, I no longer need to care--though technically enforced, only a magic weapon distinction matters. In future games I will probably further flatten how weapons work.
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Post by asaki on Nov 2, 2019 2:23:55 GMT -6
True, but bows do 1d6 damage at a distance. It might be significant to allow magic-users and clerics to use bows. MUs can throw daggers B) |
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Post by waysoftheearth on Nov 2, 2019 3:26:15 GMT -6
Range is rarely a factor underground. OTOH, spears are multi-purpose and can do double or even treble damage  |
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graelth
Level 4 Theurgist
Posts: 111
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Post by graelth on Nov 2, 2019 5:08:46 GMT -6
True, but bows do 1d6 damage at a distance. It might be significant to allow magic-users and clerics to use bows. MUs can throw daggers B) Range is rarely a factor underground. OTOH, spears are multi-purpose and can do double or even treble damage Well I use minis, so daggers are merely 3” (using the range for thrown weapons in Chainmail). Incidentally, the range for a melee attack is also 3”, so your Magic-User is vulnerable to a melee attack if he wants to throw a dagger! |
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Post by talysman on Nov 2, 2019 9:07:48 GMT -6
Incidentally, the range for a melee attack is also 3”, so your Magic-User is vulnerable to a melee attack if he wants to throw a dagger! Unless they have like, two daggers, or something. |
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graelth
Level 4 Theurgist
Posts: 111
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Post by graelth on Nov 2, 2019 10:28:20 GMT -6
Incidentally, the range for a melee attack is also 3”, so your Magic-User is vulnerable to a melee attack if he wants to throw a dagger! Unless they have like, two daggers, or something. He can have a dozen daggers if he so pleases... doesn't stop an orc from attacking him! At least with a bow you can fire on an enemy from a distance greater than his own melee range! |
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Post by hamurai on Nov 3, 2019 1:20:47 GMT -6
We started with AD&D and therefore had different damage dice on weapons. What we did was a houserule to allow wizards the use of swords (we knew it was a ritual component for "real life wizards") but it did damage as a dagger. Or, if you prefer, our wizards got to use really long and sturdy daggers.
We did apply the same rule to magic swords, if I'm not mistaken, so a magic sword wielded by a wizard would have been a magic dagger with the same bonuses, in game terms.
We reasoned the lack of training would make the wizard wielding a sword less dangerous than a fighter wielding that same sword.
This never came up in our OD&D rounds, though.
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