|
|
Post by harlandski on Mar 16, 2019 10:54:58 GMT -6
Just a quick question: Is there anything in the 3lbbs which says abilities cannot be over 18? As far as I can see this could happen by lowering some abilities to raise your prime requisite. I know the tables all assume 18 is the maximum, but things could be extrapolated from what is given.
My motivation is that I'm making a spreadsheet to model OD&D chargen (starting with the 3lbbs), and this question has arisen. I am aware that in play this won't come up very often due to the unlikelihood of rolling a very high number in your prime requisite and also having relatively high secondary abilities to burn.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2019 11:17:12 GMT -6
Theoretically, yes. However... why?
There is no difference between an 18 and a 19 in the rules. Or a 17 and an 18, for that matter.
None whatsoever.
|
|
|
|
Post by scottyg on Mar 16, 2019 11:49:22 GMT -6
The source material that was the inspiration for the game is full of examples of superhuman abilities, so it’s almost an assumed occurrence at some point. There’s nothing in the rules that cover it, but going beyond the rules is another assumed part of the game. Stats do very little in OD&D though, especially the original three books, so you won’t get much practical application for the effort.
|
|
|
|
Post by peterlind on Mar 16, 2019 17:22:56 GMT -6
On page 11 of Men & Magic, under "Bonuses and Penalties to Advancement due to Abilities," the following ranges are given:
"(Low score is 3–8; Average is 9–12; High is 13–18)"
I think it may be implied that the Ability range allowed, at least for starting characters, is 3-18. However, it is true that there is no statement that "18" is an absolute
maximum, especially after play starts.
|
|
|
|
Post by harlandski on Mar 16, 2019 21:18:02 GMT -6
Theoretically, yes. However... why? There is no difference between an 18 and a 19 in the rules. Or a 17 and an 18, for that matter. None whatsoever. Except that a fighting man with 19 strength is stronger than one with 18 strength, for example. I agree there are no mechanical differences, but that fact may become relevant in play. |
|
|
|
Post by sixdemonbag on Mar 17, 2019 13:33:12 GMT -6
The section on intelligent swords utilizes the raw strength and intelligence scores, so there would actually be a mechanical difference between an 18 and a 19, or a 17 and an 18, etc.
So, it's not quite "none" since magic swords are actually a huge class feature for the F-M.
|
|
|
|
Post by talysman on Mar 18, 2019 11:44:49 GMT -6
Theoretically, yes. However... why? There is no difference between an 18 and a 19 in the rules. Or a 17 and an 18, for that matter. None whatsoever. That's not entirely true. Int 19 gets more languages. Charisma 19 gets a larger command radius in large-scale battles. And sixdemonbag has already mentioned the ego battles with magic swords. Beyond that, of course, there's no "by the book" difference, although any situation where the GM rules the side with the higher attribute gets an advantage will still matter. |
|
|
|
Post by Red Baron on Mar 18, 2019 15:51:12 GMT -6
On an only tangentially-related note, would you rule that a 15 strength fighting man is physically stronger than a 15 strength dwarf or hobbit?
|
|
|
|
Post by talysman on Mar 18, 2019 16:53:39 GMT -6
On an only tangentially-related note, would you rule that a 15 strength fighting man is physically stronger than a 15 strength dwarf or hobbit? Dwarf, no. Hobbit? Maybe. Haven't decided. I more or less see Strength as a relative rating rather than an absolute rating. So, my giants have Strength 10, on average, but that's relative to other giants. Hobbits also have Strength 10, on average, relative to other hobbits. If a giant and a hobbit were to armwrestle, I'd take into account the size difference first, so the giant would win automatically. If a human were to armwrestle a hobbit, I'd give 2 to 1 odds (roll 1d6, hobbit wins on 5+, otherwise human wins.) But if the hobbit is Strength 15 and the human Strength 10, maybe the odds vs. the human are 50/50, and vs. the giant they are more like 1 in 6. If the giant were Strength 7, or the hobbit got the giant's permission to use both hands, I might make it a 5+ on 1d6 roll, as for the human-vs.-hobbit match when both are at Strength 10. Or maybe I'd just go by hit dice and ignore Strength. Or allow Strength to replace hit dice on a 2 for 1 basis, so Strength 18 hobbits are equal in strength to 9 HD creatures. |
|
|
|
Post by aldarron on Apr 13, 2019 17:57:19 GMT -6
We talked about this somewhere before but I'll be d**ned if I can find the thread.
So, from a design intent standpoint, 18 was not the maximum, if we can trust a quote from Gygaz about a year and a half after the rules were published. Here is the quote that appeared in Alarums and Excursions #2, July 1975.
"By the way, a score of 18 is only the usual top limit for humans in Greyhawk. We have monsters with intelligence scores well over 18, and one player is about to work out a deal which will jump his to not less than 19."
|
|
