Sleep spell in OD&D

[harlandski]

I just read that in Swords & Wizardry White Box, there is no saving throw for a Sleep spell. This took me back to the wording in Men & Magic:

"The spell always affects up to the number of creatures determined by the dice."

Is the intention of these words that creatures get no saving throw? This would make a real difference - until now I've been giving each creature a saving throw.

In related news I've also been assuming that skeletons aren't affected by the Sleep spell, partly from logic and partly extending the application of the wording in Charm Person about undead. What do (and what did) other people do?

[waysoftheearth]

Sleep: There is no saving throw against this spell.

(GH p20)

The story of Sleep.


edit: what I do? DD5:



What I do that's not explicit (in dd5 or the original game) is that I have the caster pick a target (usually a figure, but I guess a man-sized "space" could work). If the target is heroic, it's just that one figure. If the target is a normal-type, then the caster throws for how many are affected (2d6+2). The spell affects the nearest figures first. If there's any contention for "nearest" a lesser figure (fewer HD, hp, whatever) is affected first (which only matters for determining the very last figure that will be hit). If it's a dead tie, then dice for it.

Allies and players (including the caster) are affected equally (as per most area effects IMC). Which is epic for the M-U when he achieves heroic status

[asaki]

S&W uses bits from Greyhawk, in which it states:

Sleep: There is no saving throw against this spell. Remember that a Sleep Spell affects but a single creature with 4 or 4 + 1 hit dice, and creatures above 4 + 1 hit dice are unaffected. Sleep does not affect undead.

Interestingly, between Magic Missile and Ventriloquism, Greyhawk has this bit:

Direct Magic: Range 6”. Duration: 2 turns.

This spell isn't on the spell list though. My best guess is that it's a typo of "Detect Magic", but then why is it in the wrong order? Mysterious.

While we're on the subject, the description of "Hold Person" has always bothered me:

A spell similar to a Charm Person, but which is of both limited duration and greater effect.

Of course, thanks to AD&D, we know exactly what this spell does (and it isn't difficult to make an educated guess), but that original description is painfully vague and misleading =)

[harlandski]

Jan 15, 2019 5:00:29 GMT -6 waysoftheearth said:

Does the printed Delving Deeper book have all those footnotes - because they are way cool - or are they just from your personal copy? I have Delving Deeper in my basket on Lulu with some other goodness for next pay day...

[retrorob]

I judge:

- no ST permitted
- undead, robots etc. are immune
- range: 240 feet (originate from the M-U)
- duration: 2-12 turns (2d6, like sleeping gas trap in Solo Dungeon Adventures by Gygax)
- affects: 2d8 1st level types OR 2d6 2nd level OR 1d6 3rd level OR 1 4th level. EXAMPLE: if there is a warband composed of, let's say, 10 hobgoblins (HD 1+1), 5 gnolls (HD 2) and 1 ogre (HD 4+1), M-U will put to sleep 2d8 hobgoblins only (as they are the weakest). Variant: roll for the monster category (1-2: hobgoblins, 3-4: gnolls, 5-6: ogre)

moreover, in my campaign I added Sleep spell for Clerics (on 2nd level)

[Deleted]

Sleep has no saving throw.

[doublejig2]

First (and only?) ethical dilemma of the game - do I slay foes that the magic user has put to sleep?

[Merias]

I use it as written with no save, you can always throw undead and other creatures not affected by the spell at players who get used to using it. You could also use the area of effect noted in Swords & Spells, which is a 10' diameter. That makes it somewhat less deadly as it has to be targeted over a small area.

Speaking of S&W White Box, I change the HD chart noted in the sleep spell description to be more like the original in Men & Magic, as written it affects 1d6 creatures of "3+ to 4+1 HD" (that may be a typo, but it is written that way in all the S&W WB printings). Sleeping up to six Ogres without a save does seem a bit over-powered for a 1st level spell.

[Red Baron]

Mr Mornard explained the sleep spell a while ago:

1. Determine which classes of hit dice are present within the area of the spell.
2. Randomly determine which hit dice category of those present is affected (only one is). 
3. Randomly determine the number of individuals affected.
4. Randomly determine which individuals are affected from all individuals present within the area of the spell who fall under the affected hit dice category.