A Question About Specters

[xerxez]

I think it safe to say that a spectre is Chaotic, even if alignment is not designated unless I have missed it.

Without going to later TSR details about the Negative Material Plane and the Monster Manual description of a specter, the OD&D specter would be Chaotic I would think because of it’s life draining effect.

Point being, I would like to use a friendly spirit in a game but really there is nothing in the Monsters section of the Undead that is useable as such. I would like to stat the creature but the specter is basically not inimical in the adventure and possibly even helpful.

How would you run a spirit that is not necessarily hostile? I’m thinking of just using a specter but have also considered creating a Haint specially for this adventure.

Could you envision a specter having greater semblance of its former earthly self and not instantly attacking living things?

[Deleted]

Make up something. If it's supposed to be friendly, it doesn't need stats. If the PCs attack it, it disappears never to return.

[Stormcrow]

Who says spectres, or any monster, can't be friendly? The existence of a random reaction table suggests otherwise.

Think of Tegel Manor. If you walk in the front door the ghost of a balrog appears and politely asks to take your hats and coats. No stats are provided because he's not interested in fighting.

[Stormcrow]

By the way, spectres are listed as chaotic in Men & Magic.

[tetramorph]

Right. And even if it were chaotic, chaotic doesn't necessarily mean "instant attack," or "unhelpful to the party."

[derv]

Are you talking about Casper? (;

[talysman]

You could, of course, just use specter stats, but declare the spirit to be neutral and swap out life drain for something else, say Hold Monster.

[xerxez]

Thanks, very helpful. My original post is worded wrongly, I shouldn’t have said “friendly”, probably better to say potentially neutral and having a reason for haunting a place like your traditional “spirit cannot be laid to rest until...” sort of situation.

If attacked , it will fight but does not really desire conflict because it truly desires the party’s success in handling the root cause of why it is manifesting. I think a specter fits the bill fine.

And no, his name will not be Casper! Maybe Casperus or Casperio. 😜

[derv]

Sept 18, 2018 16:35:00 GMT -6 talysman said:

You could, of course, just use specter stats, but declare the spirit to be neutral and swap out life drain for something else, say Hold Monster.

That's basically what I'd do. Hold Person or Charm Person would be good. I'd take a look at the potion description for Human Control too. Maybe amp up Hold person a little.

[doublejig2]

S.P.E.C.T.R.E = extortion is my business. (007)


As undead this rather vicious creature seeks to create slaves in its own undeath image.

[hamurai]

If it's a recently deceased person, they might still retain their worldly abilities and stats as their psyche still clings to what they know is/was them. Like a phantom limb, only it's all the limbs and the rest of the body.

I often portray the recently deceased spirits as still looking a lot like they looked in life. As time passes, they forget things about their physical forms and that alters their ghost appearance. When they no longer remember, they look like the generic ghosts and specters and tend to not act as a living person, too. The more they forget about life, the more dangerous and chaotic they become. They tend to haunt persons or places to cling to their memories of themselves.

(Disclaimer: A lot of inspiration for my ghostly entities was taken from White Wolf's Wraith - the Oblivion.)

[xerxez]

Hamurai that is actually awesome.

I like that a lot, that is a good way to do it.

Undead are pretty much portrayed as hostile and the negative material plane associated with evil in later AD&D- there is no Ghost in OD&D and in AD&D a Ghost is Chaotic Evil, while the specter is, I think, Lawful Evil. Easy enough to change in one’s game, of course.

I was thinking about Jacob Marley, he was sort of malignant as a spirit as he haunted and terrified Scrooge and he could change his aspect to be even more horrifying, but ultimately he was present for a good purpose.

I had hoped to make the encounter good testing ground for a lower level cleric but they have few spells that would help the party interact with such a being at lower levels.

[hamurai]

Another thing I might add: Instead of fighting, especially low-level characters might have a chance to find something belonging to the ghost or know something about the ghost that will make the encounter peaceful.

I had an adventure where the PCs had the chance to find an old diary and other personal items of a ghost. They put the items on the ghost's grave which immediately made him appear and talk to the characters because the items helped him remember his life. Then the characters read from the diary and gave the ghost even more memories, and he would appear more like his human form again and remember facts he had forgotten - and secrets, which he then shared with the group.

Was a nice little investigation scenario for my players, instead of having to find a weapon that can destroy the ghost forever. (That was my alternative route to take.) We were all glad the players sympathized with the ghost. I did describe him well, though, so they probably felt like he is or was more of a person, instead of a generic ghost monster.

xerxez , giving the ghost some special abilities is always an option, especially if it's a really old ghost. In my games, such a ghost could have been a famous person who is still well remembered and even worshiped, one who has a statue of himself built or burial texts at his tomb and so on. They could be so "well equipped" with memories, they can cling on to life and memory a long time and even learn some new things. Again, much more interesting than a generic ghost with all abilities known to the players.

[tetramorph]

hamurai, this is some solid, helpful, creative stuff I'm going to have to deploy ASAP.

xerxez, also, "fear" is a good special ability for a ghost-type. Fear and control person would be formidable, without level-drain.

Also cold, debilitating ear-ringing. Ghostly things.

Fight on!

[xerxez]

Sept 20, 2018 6:30:23 GMT -6 hamurai said:

Another thing I might add: Instead of fighting, especially low-level characters might have a chance to find something belonging to the ghost or know something about the ghost that will make the encounter peaceful.

I had an adventure where the PCs had the chance to find an old diary and other personal items of a ghost. They put the items on the ghost's grave which immediately made him appear and talk to the characters because the items helped him remember his life. Then the characters read from the diary and gave the ghost even more memories, and he would appear more like his human form again and remember facts he had forgotten - and secrets, which he then shared with the group.

Was a nice little investigation scenario for my players, instead of having to find a weapon that can destroy the ghost forever. (That was my alternative route to take.) We were all glad the players sympathized with the ghost. I did describe him well, though, so they probably felt like he is or was more of a person, instead of a generic ghost monster.

xerxez , giving the ghost some special abilities is always an option, especially if it's a really old ghost. In my games, such a ghost could have been a famous person who is still well remembered and even worshiped, one who has a statue of himself built or burial texts at his tomb and so on. They could be so "well equipped" with memories, they can cling on to life and memory a long time and even learn some new things. Again, much more interesting than a generic ghost with all abilities known to the players.

You read my mind, hamurai! Working on a ghost mystery scenario, light-hearted and more investigative with some action but not necessarily violence. More roleplaying and Bloodhound Gang style adventure. Having some fun with it!

[hamurai]

Nice! I hope we'll hear more about that scenario soon!