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Post by tetramorph on Sept 7, 2018 15:14:06 GMT -6
In the U&WA, it makes it clear that the move rates are at "mapping speed." In flight or pursuit an armored man, MV6", can double that move rate, so 12".
Is this true for those whose encumbrance puts them at MV9"? So 18"?
What about an unencumbered wizard with armor class 9 and MV12"? Does this mean a wizard can run as fast as a light horse?
That seems crazy to me, although I like the idea that a wizard could run from a monster faster than a fully armored fighting-man.
How do you judge it?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2018 15:50:48 GMT -6
Exactly as it is written. Game play is more important than simulation (and don't forget the difference in ground scales).
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Post by derv on Sept 7, 2018 15:53:26 GMT -6
I read it as running speed with a 1 hour limit within the underworld. A person must then rest for 20 minutes (2 turns). An unencumbered wizard could run up to 2880 feet before needing rest. There is no restriction to rest for monsters that I know of. An assumption might also be made that horses will not be used in a dungeon. So, running speed for a horse might be considered to be in yards- in other words 3x the wizards.
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akooser
Level 4 Theurgist
Posts: 150
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Post by akooser on Sept 7, 2018 15:55:33 GMT -6
Yeah those movement rates are way to high. I do cave exploration for a living. You pretty much need to halve those movement rates if you are exploring, taking notes, and sketching a map. This is what I do for our OD&D and BX local games. Just for fun I took most of the BX crew out to some actual caves and underground ruins. Very quickly they told me those D&D move rates were crap.
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Post by derv on Sept 7, 2018 16:11:53 GMT -6
I generally consider 2 miles/hour a standard walking speed with pack (in real life). The wizard is only running a little over 1/2 mile in an hour. That actually seems kinda slow to me.
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Post by clownboss on Sept 8, 2018 4:05:23 GMT -6
My whole party, regardless of composition, encumbrance or bearings, moves 120 feet in 10 minutes when mapping. They could be the most loaded or lightest party in the world, they will always move 120ft. When revisiting explored corridors, they move 240 feet per 10 minutes, also regardless of composition and encumbrance. They move slowly because the party is guarded, deliberate, always watching, always careful, and dungeons are dark and foreboding. In flight situations things are different, because time stops being measured in 10-minute turns, but in one-minute rounds. There I measure each party member by himself because they might all vary in physical traits, encumberance, and so on, and a regular unarmored man can walk 120 feet per minute. He flees at double that rate, so 240 feet per minute. If the entire party flees, it runs at the speed of the slowest party memeber out of solidarity(unless someone deliberately wants to ditch their comrades), but they will also likely leave many of their bearings behind, like their traveling donkey, any large or heavy objects that require too much coordination to carry, such as chests or 10' poles, etc.
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Post by waysoftheearth on Sept 8, 2018 6:59:08 GMT -6
In the U&WA, it makes it clear that the move rates are at "mapping speed." In flight or pursuit an armored man, MV6", can double that move rate, so 12". Is this true for those whose encumbrance puts them at MV9"? So 18"? What about an unencumbered wizard with armor class 9 and MV12"? Does this mean a wizard can run as fast as a light horse? Pretty sure there are normally two moves per exploration turn, and that the number of moves per turn are doubled during pursuit. E.g., during Underworld exploration, the wizard would get two 12" moves (total 24") and the light horse (or its Underworld equivalent) would get two 24" moves (total 48"). In underworld flight/pursuit, the wizard would get four 12" moves (total 48") while the light horse (or Underworld equivalent) would get four 24" moves (total 96"). FWIW, I use (one minute) combat turns for flight/pursuit, versus (ten minute) exploration turns for exploration. Works out better for me this way
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Post by derv on Sept 8, 2018 8:28:41 GMT -6
FWIW, I use (one minute) combat turns for flight/pursuit, versus (ten minute) exploration turns for exploration. Works out better for me this way How do you rule for resting? At the end of an hour double rest regardless of when pursuit occurs and transitions to exploration? In practice I don't rationalize the movement rates for flight because the time/distance scales can be screwy. I simply use two moves to the turn and double the rates. A one minute turn seems reasonable enough in these cases. I find it rarely exceeds 5-6 turns in the dungeon before being resolved one way or the other. That could leave up to 55 minutes before a party would normally rest during exploration. I usually just have the party immediately rest for one turn once to safety and just count the flight as a turn. I pretty much do the same thing with combat.
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Post by waysoftheearth on Sept 8, 2018 16:43:22 GMT -6
FWIW, I use (one minute) combat turns for flight/pursuit, versus (ten minute) exploration turns for exploration. Works out better for me this way How do you rule for resting? … I usually just have the party immediately rest for one turn once to safety and just count the flight as a turn. I pretty much do the same thing with combat. I do pretty much what I think you're describing here. At the conclusion of any combat and/or pursuit, any "remainder" of the current (partially expired due to one-minute combat or pursuit turns) ten minute turn, plus the whole of the next ten minute turn is assumed to be rest. In practise, the partially expired exploration turn is just ignored/written off, and the next available exploration turn is considered a rest turn. re: "I don't rationalize the movement rates for flight because the time/distance scales can be screwy" I generally agree with this. I did a bunch of calculations a while back and figured that a one-minute pursuit timescale was more satisfactory (than glacial foot speeds implied by ten-minute pursuit turns), so that's where I landed. It also seems practical to me because flight/pursuit often begins or ends with combat. So... having the one timescale across these doesn't hurt.
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Post by rustic313 on Sept 8, 2018 17:10:19 GMT -6
I would also note that Chainmail allows retreat in good order at 2x speed. It is the most common outcome of morale failure in melee in fact. So it isn't surprising to see flight at 2x speed in od&d.
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Post by delta on Sept 8, 2018 18:58:36 GMT -6
What about an unencumbered wizard with armor class 9 and MV12"? Does this mean a wizard can run as fast as a light horse? If there was a light horse that was being slowed down by mapping, then it would be reasonable that it could also ditch the map and run at double speed, outstripping the wizard. Or maybe consider a centaur (MV 18") doing the same. Somewhat more seriously, keep in mind that the standard move rates are crazy slow, and (agreeing with derv here) the pursuit rates are a lower-bound on what might be reasonable. On my blog, a great comment by rando pointed us to firefighter rules-of-thumb on doing comprehensive search/sweeps in buildings for victims while wearing full gear, facemask, oxygen tank etc., and it came out similar to the OD&D 9"×2 per 10 minutes rule; i.e., the rule is very slow compared to what a normal man can do while unencumbered to get away.
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Post by aldarron on Sept 10, 2018 8:03:05 GMT -6
In the U&WA, it makes it clear that the move rates are at "mapping speed." In flight or pursuit an armored man, MV6", can double that move rate, so 12". Is this true for those whose encumbrance puts them at MV9"? So 18"? What about an unencumbered wizard with armor class 9 and MV12"? Does this mean a wizard can run as fast as a light horse? Pretty sure there are normally two moves per exploration turn, and that the number of moves per turn are doubled during pursuit. E.g., during Underworld exploration, the wizard would get two 12" moves (total 24") and the light horse (or its Underworld equivalent) would get two 24" moves (total 48"). In underworld flight/pursuit, the wizard would get four 12" moves (total 48") while the light horse (or Underworld equivalent) would get four 24" moves (total 96"). FWIW, I use (one minute) combat turns for flight/pursuit, versus (ten minute) exploration turns for exploration. Works out better for me this way Ditto.
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Post by doublejig2 on Sept 10, 2018 21:29:16 GMT -6
More on gameplay = But what about a wizard riding a galloping light horse? Emirikol the Chaotic would surely shoot a magic missile at the pursuing guard as per DMG 1e, p.193, and ride on to history.
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