Post by clownboss on Nov 6, 2017 16:41:27 GMT -6
Would this at all be possible? Figuring out how generic small animals like wolves, lions, bears, etc. would fight in Man-to-Man rules was a ground for turning gears for me. I have at least a basic indication that most animals would have an armor class of 8 or 7, but how would we factor out their inate dexterity and stabbing/cutting power of their maws and appendages? The first thing I tried, by instinct, is to try to equate them to Man-to-Man weapons, just as how horses were given the equivalency of mace and flail attacks in CHAINMAIL because of their kicking hooves.
Snakes and Scorpions
1hp
Attacks as: Dagger(Teeth)
Armor Class: 9
Wolf
1 HD
Attacks as: Dagger(Teeth)
Armor Class: 8
Ape(Gorilla)
1 HD
Attacks as: Mace(Fists, slaps), or slings(Throws rocks)
Armor Class: Unbarded horse
Crocodile
1 HD
Attacks as: Can't penetrate any armor, but can bite and crunch(unarmored) legs on a succesfull roll of 7
Armor Class: 5
Boar
2 HD
Attacks as: Flail(Charge)
Armor Class: Unbarded horse
Lions and other large cats
2 HD
Attacks as: Battle axe(claws) + Dagger(Teeth)
Armor Class: Unbarded horse
Bear
2+1 HD
Attacks as: Two swords or two morning stars, 50/50 chance
Armor Class: Barded horse
You can see that none of these animals stretch beyond 2HD for hit points unlike a lot of other guys who give them stats, because I firmly believe generic animals should be just as vulnerable as humans in real life, so a lot of these would have near to 1HD of equivalency.
But how would we do those giant creatures that far exceed the size of common animals? How exactly would a Giant Spider or a Wyvern attack, for example? We could just as easily give Spiders pikes for legs, or two battle axes for bites(an axe for each jawline) and Wyverns would get spears for tails. I assume mummies would attack with either their blunt fists(so mace), or claws(I would assume hand axe or sword). Medusas would probably be just a whole bunch of daggers for snake bites, if we can interpret her clawing a player as completely fruitless.
Dragons would... hmm, I guess you can interpret dragon claws each as a lance(so perhaps four lances per a paw), or use them as a massive paw slap. In which case every slap would be treated as a flail*number of Hit Dice. Or how bout for a single bite you would need to roll 8 polearms?
Of course, you can see this causes a lot of other troubles. The implication you need to roll 8 polearms for a dragon bite not only means one of those 8 dice throws will most definitely hit, but it trivialises the possibility of simply dodging a dragon's attack. Just because an attack didn't meet a number does not mean it connected in the first place, and many of these systems already put too much faith in an animal's precision of attack and their general accessibility to a character's vital spots. All things considered, wolves have very small maws. And how exactly can crocodiles attack you, other than just trying to nibble your feet?
As this subject very quickly delves into messy and self-contradictory thought you just get tired of, it is completely possible that most players would just stick with the alternate combat rules for giving animals attacks since they don't have weapons - indeed, it might have been the very purpose and reason the alternate combat was made for in the first place, as a catch-all for those situations where weapons and armor won't fit particular combat rules. But to me it just doesn't seem believable that a single 1HD wolf with a tiny maw would be on an even playing field with a lvl 1 fighter wielding a greatsword.
How would you do it? How do you provide your generic animal battles in OD&D, which combat system do you use, and what sizable challenge or hit dice do you endow them with? What stats would you give them, and how do you think Gary and Dave meant for these animal encounters to unfold?
Snakes and Scorpions
1hp
Attacks as: Dagger(Teeth)
Armor Class: 9
Wolf
1 HD
Attacks as: Dagger(Teeth)
Armor Class: 8
Ape(Gorilla)
1 HD
Attacks as: Mace(Fists, slaps), or slings(Throws rocks)
Armor Class: Unbarded horse
Crocodile
1 HD
Attacks as: Can't penetrate any armor, but can bite and crunch(unarmored) legs on a succesfull roll of 7
Armor Class: 5
Boar
2 HD
Attacks as: Flail(Charge)
Armor Class: Unbarded horse
Lions and other large cats
2 HD
Attacks as: Battle axe(claws) + Dagger(Teeth)
Armor Class: Unbarded horse
Bear
2+1 HD
Attacks as: Two swords or two morning stars, 50/50 chance
Armor Class: Barded horse
You can see that none of these animals stretch beyond 2HD for hit points unlike a lot of other guys who give them stats, because I firmly believe generic animals should be just as vulnerable as humans in real life, so a lot of these would have near to 1HD of equivalency.
But how would we do those giant creatures that far exceed the size of common animals? How exactly would a Giant Spider or a Wyvern attack, for example? We could just as easily give Spiders pikes for legs, or two battle axes for bites(an axe for each jawline) and Wyverns would get spears for tails. I assume mummies would attack with either their blunt fists(so mace), or claws(I would assume hand axe or sword). Medusas would probably be just a whole bunch of daggers for snake bites, if we can interpret her clawing a player as completely fruitless.
Dragons would... hmm, I guess you can interpret dragon claws each as a lance(so perhaps four lances per a paw), or use them as a massive paw slap. In which case every slap would be treated as a flail*number of Hit Dice. Or how bout for a single bite you would need to roll 8 polearms?
Of course, you can see this causes a lot of other troubles. The implication you need to roll 8 polearms for a dragon bite not only means one of those 8 dice throws will most definitely hit, but it trivialises the possibility of simply dodging a dragon's attack. Just because an attack didn't meet a number does not mean it connected in the first place, and many of these systems already put too much faith in an animal's precision of attack and their general accessibility to a character's vital spots. All things considered, wolves have very small maws. And how exactly can crocodiles attack you, other than just trying to nibble your feet?
As this subject very quickly delves into messy and self-contradictory thought you just get tired of, it is completely possible that most players would just stick with the alternate combat rules for giving animals attacks since they don't have weapons - indeed, it might have been the very purpose and reason the alternate combat was made for in the first place, as a catch-all for those situations where weapons and armor won't fit particular combat rules. But to me it just doesn't seem believable that a single 1HD wolf with a tiny maw would be on an even playing field with a lvl 1 fighter wielding a greatsword.
How would you do it? How do you provide your generic animal battles in OD&D, which combat system do you use, and what sizable challenge or hit dice do you endow them with? What stats would you give them, and how do you think Gary and Dave meant for these animal encounters to unfold?
