News About Jack Chick

[Malcadon]

I heard today that famous track writer Jack Chick died yesterday. I cannot find news on cause, as he kept his personal life private. Hes was 92.

Although he help contribute to the D&D satanic scare of the 1980s, I'll always find Dark Dungeon an entertaining read, and Ms. Frost to be the sexiest DM ever.

Jack Thomas Chick 1924—2016

[Vile Traveller]

A toast to one of the most successful D&D recruitment drives, ever.

[ritt]

The few occasions that I found one of his hateful comics "In the wild", so to say, it was in a public toilet stall.

I find that very appropriate.

[jcstephens]

I never actually believed there was such a person. Looks like reality finally caught up with me.

[thorswulf]

Thank you folks for posting things that are not as barbed, angry, or hateful like some of theother gaming blogs out thee have. I'm sure many of you were on the receiving end of the satanic panic like I was because we played D&D. The irony to me was here are a bunch of narrow minded people who really don't think for themselves telling people who are creative and have vivid imaginations, who DO think for themselves that we are worse than them. The funny thing was I didn't actually read that Dark dungeons tract until I was in College in my 20's. Oh I had read some of the other ones and found them to be as odious.

[tetramorph]

Well, may he RIP.

And all of us, when our day comes.

Who knows how deceived anyone really is.

[werdegast]

Requiem Æternam...

Being Catholic I have found endless numbers of his tracts on my car over the years. I have also received then at Halloween as a kid and "dropped" by my in-laws as an adult.

[Deleted]

Colossus voice: "Language, please."

Gentlemen, not because anyone had crossed the boundaries of good taste yet, but as a general caveat:

Quite understandably, this is not particularly sad news for anyone here. Even so, please stay respectful and considerate in your comments.


All that said: There's a special place in hell for adults, like him, who try to bully children.

[aldarron]

I've seen some pretty disgusting and childish things being said. I guess it shows people's true colors. Jack Chic was wrong; he propagated bigoted and conspiratorial beliefs, but he was never hateful. He sincerely thought he was trying to help people, as screwed up as that may sound.

[Deleted]

"Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who have trespassed against us." May God have mercy on his soul.

[Deleted]

Oct 24, 2016 22:45:31 GMT -6 Vile Traveller said:

A toast to one of the most successful D&D recruitment drives, ever.

I came to OD&D as a college student in 1975 and never encountered any of the negatives that some of you have. My parents in a rural area had no problem with my teaching my two much younger brothers to play D&D. So it was a long time after the fact that I saw Dark Dungeons and I found it funny because it was so extreme and so over the top in its complete misrepresentation of D&D (and because it had never effected my life in any way).

[Finarvyn]

Oct 25, 2016 12:40:51 GMT -6 @theperilousdreamer said:

Oct 24, 2016 22:45:31 GMT -6 Vile Traveller said:

A toast to one of the most successful D&D recruitment drives, ever.

I came to OD&D as a college student in 1975 and never encountered any of the negatives that some of you have. My parents in a rural area had no problem with my teaching my two much younger brothers to play D&D. So it was a long time after the fact that I saw Dark Dungeons and I found it funny because it was so extreme and so over the top in its complete misrepresentation of D&D (and because it had never effected my life in any way).

My background sounds similar to yours, except that I was in middle school. Rural midwest town and my parents had a strong religious background, but no villagers with pitchforks. I think that my parents never quite understood what I liked about D&D, but they did appreciate that it kept me out of trouble and having nice, imaginative, fun with my friends.

I never even heard of Jack Chick or "Dark Dungeons" until much later.

[Deleted]

Oct 25, 2016 11:32:18 GMT -6 aldarron said:

I've seen some pretty disgusting and childish things being said. I guess it shows people's true colors. Jack Chic was wrong; he propagated bigoted and conspiratorial beliefs, but he was never hateful. He sincerely thought he was trying to help people, as screwed up as that may sound.

Sorry, aldy, but a most decisive NO: While not engaging in hate speech, he discriminated against others - and preferably against those who were already weak, and could not well defend themselves. In fact, he made it his life's work to badmouth and libel innocent people for living their lives in ways he didn't approve of; that he did so in a ridiculous, pitifully stupid way doesn't change his intention. And that he used his religious views as an excuse to do so makes it even worse, in my opinion, because it exculpates his own thoughts as the "will of God". - Like, sure, maybe he himself was even earnestly convinced of own crap; but isn't that how the saying goes? "Every villain is a hero in his own mind."

[Malcadon]

Oct 25, 2016 11:32:18 GMT -6 aldarron said:

I've seen some pretty disgusting and childish things being said. I guess it shows people's true colors. Jack Chic was wrong; he propagated bigoted and conspiratorial beliefs, but he was never hateful. He sincerely thought he was trying to help people, as screwed up as that may sound.

Yes, I encountered way too many people like that. I really agree with the "its not hateful" thing, as people like him are more judgemental and dogmatic, and they act obtuse believing that they are doing you a favor. And it is really sad, as Jesus from the books was not judgemental of others, save for people truly deserving of distaste. The people Jesus had the most distaste for were dogmatic fundamentalists and the greedy, socially aloof priesthood. He actively challenged both camps and questioned sacred, long-held believes.

If there was one person who exemplifies his teachings, it would be Fred Rogers. Even of you did something that he'll disagree with you on, he'll not hold it against you, nor push his own believes on you. Although, Fred had the benefit of charm, honest persuasion and never talking down to anyone. Where someone like Jack Chick blindly follows the verse John 3:16 it is the only thing that matters, Fred Rogers was someone who took Jesus's example and ran with it. If more Christians were like Rogers, the world would be a way better place to live.

[derv]

Wikipedia actually gives a fairly balanced presentation of the man.

I once had a conversation with my wife on the topic of Hell. She's a sensitive Christian woman. Our talk somehow went in the direction of people that I thought truly deserved going to Hell. I'm talking about people like Hitler, Stalin, or John Wayne Gacy. Without getting into a long detailed account, the bottom line was that she sincerely responded by saying she wouldn't wish Hell on anyone.

I had to reflect on that for awhile. It's just so contrary to my sense of (need for) justice. It speaks volumes about my own human condition.

[idrahil]

Oct 25, 2016 16:16:46 GMT -6 Malcadon said:

If there was one person who exemplifies his teachings, it would be Fred Rogers. Even of you did something that he'll disagree with you on, he'll not hold it against you, nor push his own believes on you. Although, Fred had the benefit of charm, honest persuasion and never talking down to anyone. Where someone like Jack Chick blindly follows the verse John 3:16 it is the only thing that matters, Fred Rogers was someone who took Jesus's example and ran with it. If more Christians were like Rogers, the world would be a way better place to live.

Not to hijack the thread, but if you have never seen the video of Fred Roger's testimony in congress back in the 60s, its amazing stuff ... check it out on youtube.

[Deleted]

I must say that I find the personal attacks against a man who has just died, to be very offensive regardless of what anyone thinks of him. This is not the time IMO to vent about your dislike of the man. I am rather neutral regarding him and when discussing someone who has just died, it is better to say nothing that to post negative things that are better left unsaid. Just my two coppers.


As for Fred Rogers, there are few men who are better examples.

[Deleted]

Oct 25, 2016 17:00:35 GMT -6 derv said:

Wikipedia actually gives a fairly balanced presentation of the man.

I once had a conversation with my wife on the topic of Hell. She's a sensitive Christian woman. Our talk somehow went in the direction of people that I thought truly deserved going to Hell. I'm talking about people like Hitler, Stalin, or John Wayne Gacy. Without getting into a long detailed account, the bottom line was that she sincerely responded by saying she wouldn't wish Hell on anyone.

I had to reflect on that for awhile. It's just so contrary to my sense of (need for) justice. It speaks volumes about my own human condition.

‘You have heard that it was said, “You shall love your neighbour and hate your enemy.” But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be children of your Father in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the righteous and on the unrighteous. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax-collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers and sisters, what more are you doing than others? '

[mrmanowar]

Oct 25, 2016 20:59:23 GMT -6 @gronanofsimmerya said:

Oct 25, 2016 17:00:35 GMT -6 derv said:

Wikipedia actually gives a fairly balanced presentation of the man.

I once had a conversation with my wife on the topic of Hell. She's a sensitive Christian woman. Our talk somehow went in the direction of people that I thought truly deserved going to Hell. I'm talking about people like Hitler, Stalin, or John Wayne Gacy. Without getting into a long detailed account, the bottom line was that she sincerely responded by saying she wouldn't wish Hell on anyone.

I had to reflect on that for awhile. It's just so contrary to my sense of (need for) justice. It speaks volumes about my own human condition.

‘You have heard that it was said, “You shall love your neighbour and hate your enemy.” But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be children of your Father in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the righteous and on the unrighteous. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax-collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers and sisters, what more are you doing than others? '

Nice quotation of Matthew 5:43-47.  Well, I never experienced any of Jack's stuff first hand, only the effects of it.  I feel for his family in their time of loss and bereavement.  We can go on and play D&D/AD&D in any of its formats, we can enjoy time with family and friends in it, but for me, well, any and every single death is a cause for concern and prayer for the family affected.  All of us have done things in our past that are quite stupid and we hope never get revealed in public.  In terms of "judge" "krino" in Greek, where one winds up heaven or hell, that is God's judgment not ours.  The same Jesus who said "Judge not lest you be judged" in Matthew 7:1 also said "Judge not according to appearance but judge with righteous judgment" in John 7:24.  I offer my condolences to his family and those who knew him.  His tract did not affect my gaming, but maybe to others it did.  Either way, mark this with a condolence for the family/friends and without a negative put-down in my mind.  I instead thank the Lord for the days I get to game with my daughters, meet the creators of the game and share good times; not derogatory comments on others who made it their ambition to spread falsehoods and slander about the game and those who play it.  As a Christian myself, that's in the Lord's (krino) judgment/hands.

[DungeonDevil]

I will probably find some way to integrate him into my campaign -- although in a sneaky anagrammatic way (kinda like Vance became Vecna). However it will prove difficult as his name is a paucity of vowels and an abundance of consonants.

[Malcadon]

Oct 26, 2016 0:52:29 GMT -6 DungeonDevil said:

I will probably find some way to integrate him into my campaign -- although in a sneaky anagrammatic way (kinda like Vance became Vecna). However it will prove difficult as his name is a paucity of vowels and an abundance of consonants.

Like, "Hack Cjick" or "Cjick the Hack"?

[randyb]

A fellow gamer (I only know him from his blog) has said it better than I could: bloodofprokopius.blogspot.com/2016/10/meditating-on-jack-chick.html.

[Deleted]

Please, folks, save such stuff for later, if you really feel like this must be done. The man just died, and, at least at the moment, such behavior is too disrespectful.

And while his attempts at discrimination were so stupid that they might seem trivial, to him himself, they were anything but.
So, don't make it easy for whoever shares his weird beliefs to mask his bigotry as whatever sort of ridcoulousness.

Criticize him for whatever he did wrong, but don't declare him a freak. That's surely tempting - but it's also excuses him.

[arkansan]

While I'm not particularly saddened personally, his family and loved ones have my condolences. Loss is hard and I hope they find peace with it.

[ritt]

No offense to anyone (HONEST, I'm not trying to be ironic or snippy) but I'm a little surprised at how much sympathy Chick is getting.

Chick squandered what modest talent he had to spread nothing but negativity, bitterness, paranoia, bigotry, and hate. Ironically, the two greatest recipients of his venom were Catholics and Mormons, who were nominally his fellow "Conservatives" (I was raised Fire-and-Brimstone Evangelical as a kid, then Mormon for a few year as a teen, so I got to be on both sides of his filth-hydrant). I would think that sincere Christians would consider him an embarrassment.

I understand that his work has a certain ragged, eccentric outsider-art appeal (I think I still have a couple of his tracks in one of my many "Junk drawers", next to old firecrackers, rusty pocket-knives, river-town strip-club flyers, keys to long-ago-junked cars, and broken old action figures) , but still...

[Deleted]

Oct 27, 2016 20:04:24 GMT -6 ritt said:

No offense to anyone (HONEST, I'm not trying to be ironic or snippy) but I'm a little surprised at how much sympathy Chick is getting.

What it really says is more about us than anything else, it says that we are good decent people by and large. The man is gone and sympathy for his family is a good thing. Negativity at this point serves no good purpose. If in your life he brought pain to you, I am sorry that happened and you have my sympathy. Many of us were not recipients of that hurt and that gives us a distance from things and a different perspective. For myself, the things I read by him - well I did not read them thinking of any connection to religion, I read them as an over the top comic strip that was unintentionally funny. I also felt sorry for him that he believed those things and quite frankly did not think much of it at all beyond those two things.

[Deleted]

Oct 27, 2016 20:04:24 GMT -6 ritt said:

No offense to anyone (HONEST, I'm not trying to be ironic or snippy) but I'm a little surprised at how much sympathy Chick is getting.

I'm not sure it's sympathy per se.  Not speaking ill of the dead in the period immediately afterward is a valuable norm in a civil society.  It's not so much about the deceased as it is about the bereaved, who are dealing with loss regardless of the sins of the deceased and deserve some space and consideration. (Maybe there should be exceptions for folks far beyond the pale; but Jack Chick wasn't Pol Pot.)

Setting that aside, I've always found Chick Tracts oddly compelling.  Not a version of Christianity I subscribe to or have sympathy for, but the tracts were engrossing.  I never sought them out, but whenever I stumbled across one I read it.  Much as I disagree with its message, I actually enjoy Dark Dungeons (and not simply in a point-at-it-and-laugh way - though there's that too).  Hard to explain why.

As a teenager, I had to keep my AD&D books stashed like porn because my mom was sure Ol' Scratch lurked within.  She would not have known who Chick was, I think, but she had the same basic Gygax-is-just-another-name-for-Satan mindset.  Good times.

[Malcadon]

If I seem to talk critically of a recently departed individual, it is not with any disrespect. I look at death and mourning as a time for refection and an assessment of life. To me, if someone creates a legacy of something, for good or bad, it should be talked about... Debated... And to surmise what that legacy will bring to the future, for good or ill. My outlook on this is as follows:

"Tell my tale to those who ask. Tell it truly, the ill deeds along with the good, and let me be judged accordingly. The rest... is silence." —Dinobot's last words, Beast Wars: Transformers "Code of Hero"

I was brought-up to honor the dead with revelry and libation. I do not know him well enough to throw a party in his name. And what does one "pour one out" for someone who might be a teetotaler by faith?

[Finarvyn]

[Admin thoughts]

I probably should have locked this thread a while back, and certainly I'll keep my eye on it.

The problem is that Chick brought religion into a RPG where no religious intent was there, and this caused a lot of bitterness and hatred by many. The scars of this are still quite visible for many who play today. In general I'd rather that real-world religion stay off of these boards and clearly it's not possible to discuss Jack Chick without bringing up religion. The fact that this thread has gotten so hostile just reinforces my opinion that religion should stay out of gaming conversation.

Not warning any specific individual here, just making a general statement that this thread may get locked at my whim if I don't like the tone that it has.

[/admin thoughts]

[werdegast]

Oct 27, 2016 21:45:56 GMT -6 @dungeonmonkey said:

Oct 27, 2016 20:04:24 GMT -6 ritt said:

No offense to anyone (HONEST, I'm not trying to be ironic or snippy) but I'm a little surprised at how much sympathy Chick is getting.

I'm not sure it's sympathy per se.  Not speaking ill of the dead in the period immediately afterward is a valuable norm in a civil society.  It's not so much about the deceased as it is about the bereaved, who are dealing with loss regardless of the sins of the deceased and deserve some space and consideration. (Maybe there should be exceptions for folks far beyond the pale; but Jack Chick wasn't Pol Pot.)

Setting that aside, I've always found Chick Tracts oddly compelling.  Not a version of Christianity I subscribe to or have sympathy for, but the tracts were engrossing.  I never sought them out, but whenever I stumbled across one I read it.  Much as I disagree with its message, I actually enjoy Dark Dungeons (and not simply in a point-at-it-and-laugh way - though there's that too).  Hard to explain why.

As a teenager, I had to keep my AD&D books stashed like porn because my mom was sure Ol' Scratch lurked within.  She would not have known who Chick was, I think, but she had the same basic Gygax-is-just-another-name-for-Satan mindset.  Good times.

Chick Tracts are like automobile accidents.  Most people do not "want" to look but are compelled to have a peek anyway.

Oddly enough they are another of the strange things that led me to the Catholic Church.  Also in the list is the Channel 4 production "Father Ted".