Tony Bath's 1966 Rules?

[James Richardson]

Does anyone know where I can get a copy of Tony Bath's rules as published in 1966?

I have a 1972 reprint of Don Featherstone's 1962 book, War Games, which contains Bath's rules as they stood in 1962 (presumably).

Playing at the World makes several references to some Tony Bath rules published in 1966, and how these directly influenced Chainmail (see page 323). However, Playing at the World doesn't mention what the publication actually was. From what I can gather, they were published as part of the Wargamer's Newsletter fanzine, but as a series of standalone handbooks (see this webpage).

It seems they were republished in 1987 by a publisher called Athena Books, but, the nearest I can get to this is this Amazon page, which shows that there are none for sale.

There is actually a Tony Bath forum at ProBoards, but, no one's posted anything to it for three years. I suppose I could try asking there as well.

Interestingly, there was a guy there who came across copies of The Bulletin which contained Tony Bath's 1956 rules. He had permission from the British Model Soldier Society to make PDF copies of those rules freely available over the Internet, but, he just didn't know how to scan documents to produce PDFs. I found he had a miniature wargaming website, and I left a message in his guestbook asking whether he ever managed it, but, I never got a reply.

So, if anyone knows where these rules are available, and can point me in the right direction, I would be very grateful.

[kesher]

Not sure if this is what you're looking for:

Tony Bath's Ancient Wargaming

Even if it's not, it's an awesome book.

[owlorbs]

The most likely candidate for what you are referring to are the rules found in the reprint book: Donald Featherstone's Lost Tales which is a reprint of the Athena Wargamer's Newsletter Rules. Here is my comment from the BGG entry:

The new edition (Lost Tales) is missing Barker's Normandy rules that appeared in the Athena edition. Still well worth owning, especially since the original is hard to find. There is other bonus material including unpublished rules and some wargaming history included as well. Excellent reprint.

Tony Bath's Medieval Rules and Don's Medieval Rules (similar) are worth the price of admission alone. That being said, the rules presented here are sparse, and unless you can refer back to the genesis of these rules in Tony's Ancient rules from War Games (1962), you might find yourself confused (i.e. assumed sequence of play).

I like this Tony Bath Medieval incarnation a little better than the 1956 BMSS version.

8/10 of these date to at least Dec. of 1967.

I wish all the old Wargamer's Newsletters were more readily available.

Rule sets included:

1. Rules for Ancient Wargames 1000 BC - AD 900 by Tony Bath
2. Medieval Rules by Tony Bath
3. God for Harry! England and St George! Wargame Rules for the Medieval Period by Donald Featherstone
4. Rules for the English Civil War by Donald Featherstone
5. Rules for the 1750 period in Europe by Tony Bath
6. Napoleonic Rules by Donald Featherstone
7. American Civil War Rules by Donald Featherstone
8. Rules for late 19th Century wargames by Donald Featherstone
9. Rules for 1917 period wargames in German S.W. Africa (including rules for early tanks, armoured cars etc) by Donald Featherstone

Not included in this book, but available in the original Athena version:

10. Rules for 1944 (Normandy) Wargames by Phil Barker.


Peltast & Pila (From the reprint: Tony Bath's Ancient Wargaming) is more or less the final result of the Bath/Featherstone Ancient/Medieval rules of the 50's and 60's. A lot more fleshed out, for example, than the ancient rules in War Games (1962). The original 1973 publication called Setting up a Wargames Campaign did not include Peltast & Pila.

The BMSS version of the rules can be found in More Wargaming Pioneers: Early Wargames Volume 4.

[kesher]

Well, THAT looks awesome!

[James Richardson]

Yep, just checked those books out on Amazon, and everything you say stacks up.

More Wargaming Pioneers: Early Wargames Volume 4 actually contains a chapter "War Games of the Middle Ages and Ancient Times by Tony Bath (1956)". So, that'll be the 1956 version.

Lost Tales has a section at the front which says "Medieval Rules by Tony Bath - various editions appeared in the Wargamer's Newsletter". So, that's probably the 1966 version.

Tony Bath's Ancient Wargaming looks good too, so, looks like three books worth getting there. I'd noticed some of these before, but, I'd discounted them because they're modern publications. It never occurred to me that they might be modern publications of old rules though. Lost Tales does say "The rules contain minor changes since they were first published," but, in the absence of the original rules, I'm sure they'll more than do.

Thanks a lot for your help, guys. I've been wanting to get my hands on those rules for a while!

[tetramorph]

FWIW I did not understand what a "wargames campaign" was or could be (and thus misunderstood the subtitle of my favorite game) until I got Tony Bath's Ancient Wargaming. Now my campaign is much more "Arnesonian" because it is much more "Bathian." Happy reading.

[Zenopus]

I went through this exact quest earlier this year, looking for the Bath 1966 Ancients Rules. IIRC, the Ancients Rules in Lost Tales on Amazon are not actually Bath's rules, but the Medieval rules are.

Here's the link to Lost Tales on Amazon:
Lost Tales

The Table of Contents differs from what owlorbs posted above for #1. Instead of "Rules for Ancient Wargames 1000 BC - AD 900 by Tony Bath", it has "Rules for Ancient Wargames 300BC-AD500".

If you look at the "Sources" page in the preview it says: "Rules for Ancient Wargames 300BC-AD500, previously unpublished". This contrasts with the Medieval Rules, which in both locations are indicated as being by Tony Bath, and in sources as having appeared in Wargamer's Newsletter.

So it would appear that the Ancient Rules in the currently available Lost Tales is a previously unpublished set by Featherstone himself, rather than Bath (although presumably they are similar). But the Medieval Rules are Bath's, and from Wargamer's Newsletter, although possibly with minor changes.

[owlorbs]

Jun 29, 2016 23:37:19 GMT -6 Zenopus said:

I went through this exact quest earlier this year, looking for the Bath 1966 Ancients Rules. IIRC, the Ancients Rules in Lost Tales on Amazon are not actually Bath's rules, but the Medieval rules are.

Here's the link to Lost Tales on Amazon:
Lost Tales

The Table of Contents differs from what owlorbs posted above for #1. Instead of "Rules for Ancient Wargames 1000 BC - AD 900 by Tony Bath", it has "Rules for Ancient Wargames 300BC-AD500".

If you look at the "Sources" page in the preview it says: "Rules for Ancient Wargames 300BC-AD500, previously unpublished". This contrasts with the Medieval Rules, which in both locations are indicated as being by Tony Bath, and in sources as having appeared in Wargamer's Newsletter.

So it would appear that the Ancient Rules in the currently available Lost Tales is a previously unpublished set by Featherstone himself, rather than Bath (although presumably they are similar). But the Medieval Rules are Bath's, and from Wargamer's Newsletter, although possibly with minor changes.

Good point about the Ancient Rules. My table of contents above is actually from the Athena Wargamer's Newsletter Rules edition which I failed to indicate. My copy is dated 1987. I'll see if I can compare the Medieval Rules from the two editions and see what changes were made.

[James Richardson]

Jun 30, 2016 6:40:52 GMT -6 owlorbs said:

I'll see if I can compare the Medieval Rules from the two editions and see what changes were made.

That would be really interesting. Thanks!

[increment]

Jun 30, 2016 7:30:48 GMT -6 James Richardson said:

Jun 30, 2016 6:40:52 GMT -6 owlorbs said:

I'll see if I can compare the Medieval Rules from the two editions and see what changes were made.

That would be really interesting. Thanks!

So just to clarify a bit: as my book says (pg21 fn28), the 1956 version was published in the British Model Soldier Society's Bulletin, in the July and September issues. The 1966 Rules for Medieval Wargames comes in two different versions that I've seen: one is a self-published pamphlet with no listed publisher and no date, it is just six unnumbered pages of rules. Another version explicitly lists it as "A Wargamer's Newsletter Handbook" on the cover but is otherwise identical - that is the edition depicted on the page of "standalone handbooks" you linked, with the archers all in a row. Perhaps the first is just some kind of bootleg, or a photocopy of an example that was distributed informally by Bath.

The Athena Wargames Rules pamphlets from the 1980s are different from Bath's 1960s editions in both format and in system. I have 1960s "Wargamer's Newsletter Handbooks" for all of the rulesets included in the Athena version, and in the "Lost Tales" anthology (as described below, I haven't seen it), apart from Featherstone's "God for Harry!" medieval rules and his ECW rules (which as far as I know are later). In Wargamer's Newsletter #45 (Dec 1965) lists the imminent availability of eight titles in the Wargamer's Newsletter Handbooks series, which includes (from the "Lost Tales" list) 1, 2, 5, 4, 8, 9, 7, and 10 (in that order). Featherstone also circulated a crude picture book called "Wargames Terrain" around the same time. In the editorial of the next issue (Jan 1966), Featherstone apologizes for the delay but promises that the books will be ready to ship "tomorrow". The subsequent issues carry no similar excuses, so, it would seem he succeeded, and that those Handbooks were released very early in 1966.

[owlorbs]

That is good to know. If the '66 edition is different from the 80's edition, then there is little point in comparing the 80's edition to Lost Tales.