Abstract combat how do you use it?

[bestialwarlust]

Without getting into the exact amount of time a combat turn/round is I was curious to see how others here utilize d&d's abstract combat nature. With hit points acting more of a pacing mechanic and the die roll representing several attacks combat leaves a lot open. Do most of your combats just play out as rolling dice and saying "hit" or "miss" or do you as a player or ref. embellish more? So long winded post I guess to ask how do you play out your abstract combats? How do you handle movement and attacks or any special maneuver in your d&d game?

[Deleted]

There are movement rates per turn, I use them. "Special" maneuvers I adjudicate ad hoc.

Most combats are indeed "hit/miss, x points damage." Excitement comes from the rapid pace of combat and maneuver.

"Special" maneuvers depends. "Tricky" sword moves, for instance, I consider to be part of what's going on. The combat assumes you're fighting to the best of your ability. Grab a chandelier and swing, I'd do ad hoc.

[bestialwarlust]

Oct 17, 2015 11:08:12 GMT -6 @gronanofsimmerya said:

There are movement rates per turn, I use them. "Special" maneuvers I adjudicate ad hoc.

Most combats are indeed "hit/miss, x points damage." Excitement comes from the rapid pace of combat and maneuver.

"Special" maneuvers depends. "Tricky" sword moves, for instance, I consider to be part of what's going on. The combat assumes you're fighting to the best of your ability. Grab a chandelier and swing, I'd do ad hoc.

Interesting thanks. I'm looking to help some of my players see the bigger advantage to od&d's abstract combat vs the "tactical" combat of WotC d&d/PF.

[howandwhy99]

Abstractions are broad general categories. A Hit Point represents many, many things. So does a To Hit chart and a Saving Throw chart or Ability Score. You can aggregate many different systems for players to play when they get creative and attempt things in specific rather than abstract ways.

For example, just think of someone who attacks a creature's eye rather than the abstract AC of the whole creature. The eye has an AC, HP, Saves, and the rest, but it is still part of the larger creature. Still, you can use systems like Called Shots to allow for this specificity. That way a creature could lose a body part, a body part could be aimed at, multiple effects can be used for specific part saves, and so on.

This doesn't negate the general attack with general damage results. But unique things will be abstracted and lost in abstracted rolls.

[Deleted]

Biggest advantage is time. A typical OD&D combat takes between 5 and 10 minutes.

[kesher]

Oct 17, 2015 15:39:38 GMT -6 @gronanofsimmerya said:

Biggest advantage is time. A typical OD&D combat takes between 5 and 10 minutes.

Amen to that!

I'm pretty sure Gary made the same point in an early Sorcerer's Scroll article about the abstract nature of D&D combat...

[Mike]

It's one of the the main draw-cards for me.

[sepulchre]

bestialwarlust wrote:

Do most of your combats just play out as rolling dice and saying "hit" or "miss" or do you as a player or ref. embellish more?

Players may state whatever they wish to do (engage in melee/special maneuver whatever), the dice offer a result by which the referee envisions for them. That is to say, a 'hit' is an abstraction that demands elaboration.

I'm looking to help some of my players see the bigger advantage to od&d's abstract combat vs the "tactical" combat of WotC d&d/PF.

Elegance. The tactical game reflects the pedantics of a skill-based mechanic. Conversely, the success of all the possible tactics is assumed under one enumeration in a level based game. This allows for immersion as the player need not be focused on the numbers, especially all the modifiers (a modifier and at most two is acceptable), rather one is listening for the colorful outcome of his characters actions by the referee. The referee, likewise, is freed from the numbers to carry on the description which began with the dungeon. Given the abstraction subsumes so many factors, the dice really can be handed over to the referee, leaving the dice as well as numbers out of the focus of the players, again immersion and elegance. Most of all this style of gaming promotes cooperation and trust, something that becomes overlooked as players crunch more and more numbers and is altogether absent from console gaming.