Publishing adventures?

[tkdco2]

How do you go about publishing an adventure or setting? I know some of you have done this before, so some advice would really be appreciated. I know I won't get rich off it, but earning a bit of income would be good. What are the ins and outs of doing this?

[bea]

I've published three different adventures in different ways (wow, I didn't think it was that many before I counted).

1) One was in Secret Santicore. The pros of that is that the Secret Santicore pdfs get a fair bit of readers, and when I did it (last year) the dude who did the pdf layout did an absolutely terrific job. It really looked incredible. The cons are that there's no money to be had from it at all and your adventure will just be one of the many many submissions. And it's done once a year, and you'll have to hope that the request you get is actually for an adventure

2) Another was on my blog, simply with a download link to the pdf in my google drive. Very simple way to do it, but you'll have no idea how many people download it and there's no money from it. Layout and stuff is all on you, unless you can get someone's help.

3) Through someone with a Name in the scene (in my case geoffrey). You get some free marketing from it, and maybe someone to help you out with layout and/or illustrations. How this works really depends on who you work with and under what conditions. I can imagine it's quite different to get a deal with James Raggi for a high-production-value adventure product than to write an adventure for the Psychedelic Fantasies series My experience working with Geoffrey has been straight-forward and positive; he did the layout and helped me proof read and give much valued feedback on the text. Had I published without his (or anyone else's) assistance the adventure would be of a somewhat poorer quality, no doubt. As for money: in our deal the adventure is sold through his rpgnow account and I get a share of the profit. We had some discussion about the price (well, not much of a discussion at all - he wanted to try the PWYW variety and I don't care the least ).

If you do hope to make money I can't tell you how to make the most. I have some pointers to think about, though:
- Do you believe a product sells more if it's available in print as opposed to pdf only?
- Do you believe the product's value will be perceived as lower if it's available for free?
- Do you believe that a higher price signifies a higher quality?
- Does anyone know your name? As in, would anyone seeing the product go "Ah! tkdco2 wrote this? Cool! It's probably good then!"
- Will it be possible to publish it in a series or brand already known? The Psychedelic Fantasies series is surely known to some, the Lamentations of the Flame Princess name is known to a lot of people. They already have a customer base and communication channels.

Lastly, think about what you expect and hope to happen when you publish. If you know what your own expectations and hopes are it's easier to decide how to publish.

I'm gonna follow this thread to see what the more experienced authors/illustrators/publishers have to say

[cadriel]

Different people use different tools. Professional layout uses things like Publisher or InDesign, while amateur layouts can get by with stuff done in Word or some OpenOffice branch. (Basic Fantasy has been done in OO for almost a decade, for instance.)

Are you drawing your maps and illustrations? There are some excellent artists around the OSR, the best way to find them is the Google Plus community OSaRtists. Art, of course, costs money unless you've got someone willing to help you on commission, but you shouldn't count on that. The other option is to go with public-domain art, which a number of OSR projects have done in the past.

For selling, there are two main options right now, Lulu and OneBookshelf (DriveThruRPG/RPGNow). OneBookshelf is better for selling PDFs, and will let you bundle print with PDF, but is less awesome for selling print copies. Lulu on the other hand doesn't let you bundle, but I've found it much better for print-on-demand. So it's worth thinking about whether you want to sell POD through Lulu or PDF through OneBookshelf. PDFs sell more copies than print.

[Deleted]

I have been in and out of RPG publishing a few times, my main project, "Mordred - The Last Adventure" being held back by all sorts of bizarre and grotesque stuff, inncluding things like a centennial thunderstorm. My overall impression is that it's a non-profit business as an indie writer, and a high-expense business as an indie publisher. If you're looking for extra income, definitely the wrong place to eye.

Do you have something in particular that you want to publish right away, or is it just something you are looking at as a long-term development?

EDIT: As in, a specific setting, dungeon, adventure, whatever? - Depending on this, I might be able to give you a few quite specific recommendations, if you like.

[Vile Traveller]

I wrote a Mongoose Traveller supplement (not really and adventure) for Spica Publishing, and I've got the Maze of Nuromen on DTRPG under my Dreamscape Design label. I just use Microsoft Word for layout so far because you really don't need more for a simple OSR product (plus I'm very familiar with it). However, DTRPG print on demand will mean I need to switch to InDesign soon, or that freebie thing whose name I don't recall.

If you just want to try out, maybe writing for an existing OSR publisher is a good first step.

[geoffrey]

I learned a lot from Guy Fullerton's eight-part series on preparing a manuscript for publishing. Here is the first part, and the other seven parts are easily findable on the same blog:
www.chaotichenchmen.com/2012/05/publishing-tips-introduction-and-order.html

I suggest you write what you like, and then follow at least most of Guy's advice on formatting. If you do those two things, you're 90% of the way there. I write the RPG books that I wish other people would write. As for the Psychedelic Fantasies modules that I publish, I said to myself, "The sort of module that I like is very, very rare. I need to do something about that." Consequently, there are now 8 more modules that I like.

In short, pursue what you like. In doing so, you will find a bit of money in your pocket. It is nice to enjoy your hobby and net a bit of spending money as well.

[Red Baron]

The amount of money you'll make off publishing something will come nowhere close to the amount of work you'll end up doing.

If you are publishing a project as a labor of love, go for it. Otherwise, there are easier ways to make a quick buck.

[tkdco2]

Thanks for the replies, folks. I'll refine my work and try to get some folks to review or playtest my adventures and settings. I don't have any artwork at this time, but I don't need to worry about that just yet.

Some of my ideas are already on internet discussion boards, albeit not under my real name. Still, I got a lot of ideas that need to be reworked. I have time to do that.

[Merctime]

Hey, man... I wish you the best of luck getting your adventures out! Just be sure to drop the line out when they are... I might wanna buy one

[tkdco2]

Nov 14, 2014 11:25:05 GMT -6 Merctime said:

Hey, man... I wish you the best of luck getting your adventures out! Just be sure to drop the line out when they are... I might wanna buy one

Will do!

[scottenkainen]

Quite a few of us are skirting paying artists by using public domain art -- not because we're cheap, but because we're not making enough off our work to invest back into our products.

When I self-publish, I sell my stuff for almost-free. I want that validation that comes from knowing someone was willing to shell out a couple dollars for my stuff, plus it occasionally helps with gas and groceries money.

Scott "-enkainen" Casper

[oakesspalding]

Nov 14, 2014 7:14:36 GMT -6 Vile Traveller said:

I just use Microsoft Word for layout so far because you really don't need more for a simple OSR product (plus I'm very familiar with it). However, DTRPG print on demand will mean I need to switch to InDesign soon, or that freebie thing whose name I don't recall.

Why would using DTRPG mean you had to switch from Word to InDesign or similar? So, DTRPG wouldn't accept a PDF made from a Word document?

[Vile Traveller]

Their formatting requirements for PoD are different from Lulu, unfortunately. The impression I get from others that have done it is that the easiest thing to do is use their templates.

[scottenkainen]

DriveThru has intimidatingly exact requirements for Print On Demand that have kept me from pursuing it so far.

~Scott "-enkainen" Casper

[Vile Traveller]

Ironically more people seem dissatisfied with DTRPG print book quality than with Lulu. Trouble is, far more gamers go to DTRPG ...

[Merctime]

The only thing I bought from DTRPG (Or was it RPGNOW???) in print was Rob Conley's Blackmarsh. It's not a big book, but otherwise fine in terms of quality.

Given the option, I'll buy Blueholme from Lulu, for what it's worth. That's how I bought Delving Deeper, and even considering the 1/2 symbol glyph thing, I am fine extraordinarily happy with my DD books (I got two of them). But I should say that is far more due to what is inside the books as opposed to which company printed them.

tkdco2, I'm more of a consumer than a publishing dude, so I don't know how to reply like these fella's above do! But Vile Traveller's note about more gamers is probably worth considering.

[tkdco2]

Thanks again, all; there's definitely a lot of useful advice in this thread.

I had been thinking of putting all my campaign notes into a format that would look like it could be published. I hadn't thought about selling it until a friend suggested it, reminding me that I've been working on some of my campaigns for years. Still not sure who would be interested in buying them, but it can be worth a try. But first I have to find out exactly what I need to do.

[otiv]

I don't have much advice to give, but this thread is relevant to my interests (I'm planning on publishing a module too. I should start a blog to promote it...)

[rredmond]

There are publishing folks out there too who can help.
Looks like geoffrey is one of them, Jim Kramer over at Usherwood Publishing is another.
It technically takes more of the "profit" (as Stuart Marshall likes to say, "you too can be a hundredaire by selling old school products" ) as the publisher would take a cut. But it takes some of the heavy lifting (art, editing, proofing, layout) off of the author, and can (arguably) get you more exposure.

But there's a bunch of folks out there that might be willing to partner like that. Especially since a campaign can be edition neutral.

Either way, good luck! If you want to do a "sneak peek" in & Magazine let me know!

Be well,
--Ron--

[joseph]

Very nice thread with some useful information being shared by many. I am new to writing, having written a module for North Wind Adventures, but also have the hope of publishing more with an eye towards getting my campaign setting out there.

So anyway, I have little advice but I can share my tale. I was inspired by some art posted in the Astonishing Swordsmen and Sorcerers of Hyperborea forum on these boards to bring some Asian influences into the game. I was reading Burroughs at the time and thought it would be nice to also have a tropical area in Hyperborea. So, I wrote up a brief mini setting with the object of sending it to Gygax Magazine or Fight On!. I first sent it to Jeff T. to get his approval and he really liked the setting and asked me to draw up an adventure to go with it. That's how I got my start in the industry and Jeff has been a pleasure to work with. Bottom line is - write and send it out, something might happen!

[rredmond]

Jeffrey Talanian is a stand up and awesome guy. ASSH is a wonderful product too!
--Ron--

[Merctime]

Nov 18, 2014 12:43:51 GMT -6 rredmond said:

Jeffrey Talanian is a stand up and awesome guy. ASSH is a wonderful product too!
--Ron--

Quote for truth!

[kenmeister]

Nov 18, 2014 10:39:49 GMT -6 rredmond said:

There are publishing folks out there too who can help.
Looks like geoffrey is one of them, Jim Kramer over at Usherwood Publishing is another.
It technically takes more of the "profit" (as Stuart Marshall likes to say, "you too can be a hundredaire by selling old school products" ) as the publisher would take a cut. But it takes some of the heavy lifting (art, editing, proofing, layout) off of the author, and can (arguably) get you more exposure.

But there's a bunch of folks out there that might be willing to partner like that. Especially since a campaign can be edition neutral.

Either way, good luck! If you want to do a "sneak peek" in & Magazine let me know!

Be well,
--Ron--

If I ever get something to the point of 'finished' - which I seem incapable of doing - I'd go the publisher route. That stuff really is the heavy lifting, and with projects like these, once it starts to feel like work, I lose interest.

Case in point: the closest thing I have to publish-ready is The Istari Pact. Test playing showed that putting descriptions of all the spells all the pcs have memorized directly onto their sheet will greatly speed up play. But it's been almost a year since I got that feedback and I haven't started on it yet.

[geoffrey]

RPGNow takes either 30% or 35% (depending) of the profits of PDFs. Here is how Psychedelic Fantasies is set up:

30% goes to RPGNow
35% goes to the author
35% goes to the publisher

[tkdco2]

Thanks for the info. It's useful to know this stuff.

[otiv]

I have a question.
Let's say I want to set up a 'pay what you want' deal on an adventure I'm writing (just for the pdf, obviously). What's the best way to set that up?

[cadriel]

Nov 30, 2014 13:30:18 GMT -6 otiv said:

I have a question.
Let's say I want to set up a 'pay what you want' deal on an adventure I'm writing (just for the pdf, obviously). What's the best way to set that up?

OneBookShelf (DriveThruRPG/RPGNow) offers PWYW as an option on any PDF.

[otiv]

Nov 30, 2014 18:22:15 GMT -6 cadriel said:

Nov 30, 2014 13:30:18 GMT -6 otiv said:

I have a question.
Let's say I want to set up a 'pay what you want' deal on an adventure I'm writing (just for the pdf, obviously). What's the best way to set that up?

OneBookShelf (DriveThruRPG/RPGNow) offers PWYW as an option on any PDF.

Thanks!

Can I get some advice as far as advertising an adventure module.
As far as I can tell, I want to advertise it on my own gaming blog, I want other people to talk about it on their gaming blogs, I want to get a mention in some gaming magazines mentioned in the thread already, and I want people talking about it on some gaming forums including this one and therpgsite. 
Anything I'm forgetting? I doubt I have the budget to get this plugged in a Superbowl commercial and posted on a Times Square billboard.

[tkdco2]

Another thing I need to consider is whether to make the product generic or system-specific. If I choose the latter option, who would I need to contact in order to get the proper licences? I want to avoid any legal entanglements. I have written up rules for the Highlander movies and TV series for the HERO system, but I didn't publish it as an official product, and I never sold it.

Generic products would allow the buyer to use the setting to his system of choice. I tend to keep my products generic, since I tend to use different systems for my game. I have applied my hard SF game to HERO, GURPS, and Traveller. And the space combat aspect has stats for Starmada and Full Thrust. Likewise, my low fantasy campaign was written up for both HERO and GURPS.

On the other hand, I don't know how popular generic settings are.

Another issue I have is my choice of settings. My settings aren't the typical fantasy or space opera settings, as I'm pretty bored with them (Middle-earth is an exception because I've been a Tolkien fan for decades). The problem is, my gaming group didn't care for my settings; perhaps other groups would be more receptive.

[bea]

I know at least LabLord has a very permissive license. There's a few criteria to fill to put the "LabLord compatible" logo on your adventure, but no license fee or royalty that I know of. I think most of the OSR systems are like that. Anyone else who knows specifics?

If you check out any of the Psychedelic Fantasies adventures you'll see how easy it is to make the products system neutral, too.