Creating or altering sub/classes

[odysseus]

I've been pondering about doing some alteration on some of the classes or subclasses (or create new ones) to have them more suitable for the game I intend to do.
But, as I'm not really familiar with that whole AD&D class system, I'm wondering what the guidelines are to keep it balance.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. 

[chrisj]

I'm curious what advice Jeff will offer as I have a few ideas for new subclasses myself. I suspect the process is more art than science.

Chris

[Ghul]

I have no specific mechanical advice; the process is indeed more art than science. But I will say this: I've never worried about "balance" while creating the various classes and subclasses; that's what XP progression charts are for. So do what works for you and your group, and don't bother looking over your shoulder. If it feels right to you, it is right.

[mabon5127]

I'm not sure balance is the main objective. Design what you want to achieve using the current classes as guidelines. It also could be kind of cool to work it out here if you have a preliminary. I love to anonymously criticize others people stuff!

[odysseus]

Feb 14, 2014 15:27:11 GMT -6 Ghul said:

I've never worried about "balance" while creating the various classes and subclasses; that's what XP progression charts are for.

This is part of my problem : how do I evaluate the cost in xp of an ability or a type of Hit Dice ?

So far, I've been toying with a few ideas :
- swapping Clerics and Thieves HD. As I want to focus the Clerics on their sacerdotal job and have the Paladin being the only real religious fighter (or fighting religious). I don't intend to alter the FA as it could represent how vindicative they are when defending their credos.
- Create a Scholar subclass with a pulp/2-fisted twist, a la Indiana Jones, searching for ancient lore and forgotten artifacts.
- Create a Missionary subclass. An outdoor cleric on a mission to convert all those non-believers in the remote places of Hyperborea.

[Ghul]

Feb 15, 2014 5:05:49 GMT -6 odysseus said:

Feb 14, 2014 15:27:11 GMT -6 Ghul said:

I've never worried about "balance" while creating the various classes and subclasses; that's what XP progression charts are for.

This is part of my problem : how do I evaluate the cost in xp of an ability or a type of Hit Dice ?

So far, I've been toying with a few ideas :
- swapping Clerics and Thieves HD. As I want to focus the Clerics on their sacerdotal job and have the Paladin being the only real religious fighter (or fighting religious). I don't intend to alter the FA as it could represent how vindicative they are when defending their credos.
- Create a Scholar subclass with a pulp/2-fisted twist, a la Indiana Jones, searching for ancient lore and forgotten artifacts.
- Create a Missionary subclass. An outdoor cleric on a mission to convert all those non-believers in the remote places of Hyperborea.

#1. You could actually just ditch the cleric class altogether and go with the priest, which is a d4 HD type, no armour, limited weapon selection, and greater spell memorization.
#2. Sounds like you could take a look at the bard (for lore) and the monk (for open hand fighting) and work something up that combines features of both classes.
#3. I don't see where this one needs a new class; it's just a thematic component of the character that does not necessarily require a new sub-class, but if you really want something unique, I would consider features of the cleric class combined with the ranger class, and stripping away undead turning, or maybe bumping it to a 3rd or 5th level ability.

Really there are a lot of ways in which you could approach these ideas. If you come up with something more concrete, feel free to post it here to get more specific opinions.

Cheers,
Jeff T.

[odysseus]

Thank you for the tips.

I like the idea of having the Priest as the basic Cleric class kind of character, and not the other way around.

Following your advices on 2 and 3, I came up with :

Scholar (Thief)
Driven by his lust for everything related to Hyperborea past Golden Age, the Scholar knows too well that he just can't stay at home expecting some random adventurers to do what he paid them for. Afterall, quite too often those illiterate rascals would rather disapear with the gems they looted instead of bringing back a much more valuable tome of forgotten science.

Attribute Requirement : Intelligence 12
Prime attribute : Intelligence
HD type : D6
Alignment : any
Armour : light
Shield : none
Favoured weapons : none but mechanically complex ones (i.e. crossbow and such)
Saving Throw modifier : Sorcery +2, device +2

FA : as Thief
Unarmed damege : as Monk
Unarmed damage bonus : as Monk

Abilities :
Accurate strike
First aid : as Cellular Adjustment
Lore : as Folklore
Detect secret doors
Unarmed combat : as Empty hand Master
Magic item use : as Bard
Read Magic
Alchemy
Academy : at 9th level, establish his academy, located in a city or town, attracted are 1D12+12 students (0 level scholars)

Thief progressive abilities :
Manipulate Traps
Open locks
Decipher script : +3 compared to the Thief, no restriction against ancient and alien texts
Read scrolls

Missionary (Cleric)
Not satisfied to just care for his community, the missionary is out there to find some new adherents to his cult. No surprise, he is quite often at odd with the clergy of the communities he encounters.

Identical to the Cleric with the addition of :
- Charisma 12 as a requirement and Charisma as a Prime attribute
- Alertness : only in wilderness
- Discern noise : only in wilderness
- Track : only in wilderness as Scout
- Traverse overgrowth
- Wilderness survival

The Missionary can only team up or hire people who share his religious belief. Sometimes the conversion takes place only a few second before closing the deal.