mannclay
Level 4 Theurgist
...you know what you are not, what you are you cannot know... - insane sorcerer
Posts: 116 
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Post by mannclay on Feb 12, 2014 15:51:47 GMT -6
Hello Blackmoorians! Has anyone ever made sense of the tunnel maps in the FCC? If so, can you please for the love of all living Balrogs share any of your findings on how to read those tunnel maps, thanks.   |
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Post by aldarron on Feb 12, 2014 18:39:55 GMT -6
Not sure what you may be finding confusing. They are just more map, drawn to a larger scale, with dotted lines outlining the "blown up" part shown a few pages before. Level 4 has rooms that are numbered and correspond to a key listed just before the Glendower dungeon key. Level 5 is mostly long passages with some natural caverns including what is probably the wizards pit and the black pit. IIRC level 5 has one long corridor that goes to the temple of ID.
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mannclay
Level 4 Theurgist
...you know what you are not, what you are you cannot know... - insane sorcerer
Posts: 116
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Post by mannclay on Feb 12, 2014 19:05:12 GMT -6
Not sure what you may be finding confusing. They are just more map, drawn to a larger scale, with dotted lines outlining the "blown up" part shown a few pages before. Level 4 has rooms that are numbered and correspond to a key listed just before the Glendower dungeon key. Level 5 is mostly long passages with some natural caverns including what is probably the wizards pit and the black pit. IIRC level 5 has one long corridor that goes to the temple of ID. AAHH!!! wow... that totally past over my head. i just did not understand that the dotted parts are the full page or view of the dungeon its referring to! heh...totally did not put that together. I just started truly reading the FFC and i was stumped to figure that out. Thank you, sir.  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2014 20:39:18 GMT -6
Where did you find a copy of FFC without paying the national debt of Brazil for it?
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Post by scottenkainen on Feb 12, 2014 20:44:49 GMT -6
And what was up with all the diagonals?
~Scott "-enkainen" Casper
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mannclay
Level 4 Theurgist
...you know what you are not, what you are you cannot know... - insane sorcerer
Posts: 116
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Post by mannclay on Feb 12, 2014 20:56:18 GMT -6
Where did you find a copy of FFC without paying the national debt of Brazil for it? Grabbed it up some time ago on ebay for like $100 or something. It has become my prized possession along with the LBBs that i also grabbed up on ebay for about $130. I work from home so i scope out ebay more often than i should. The FFC tunnels just did not click. I should have noticed what aldarron referred me to. Now, my plan is to convert a handful of D&D 2nd edition/Pathfinder players to some old school fun. They got a kick out of me just making sh*t up completely on the fly while playing instead of following a full out setting and/or writing elaborate plots. |
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mannclay
Level 4 Theurgist
...you know what you are not, what you are you cannot know... - insane sorcerer
Posts: 116
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Post by mannclay on Feb 12, 2014 20:57:50 GMT -6
And what was up with all the diagonals? ~Scott "-enkainen" Casper I read that possibly the maps were purposefully done in a 45 degree angle. Is that true anyone? |
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Post by havard on Feb 13, 2014 12:46:23 GMT -6
It is pretty interesting to compare these to the dungeon maps from Dungeons of Castle Blackmoor (d20 Book) which provides the same scale for all dungeon levels.
Note that the tunnels of the Blackmoor dungeon would run very far across Blackmoor's underworld. Some tunnels would connect these dungeons with the ones below Glendower. Others would most likely run all the way southwest to the Stormkiller Mountains.
-Havard
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mannclay
Level 4 Theurgist
...you know what you are not, what you are you cannot know... - insane sorcerer
Posts: 116
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Post by mannclay on Feb 13, 2014 12:56:18 GMT -6
It is pretty interesting to compare these to the dungeon maps from Dungeons of Castle Blackmoor (d20 Book) which provides the same scale for all dungeon levels. Note that the tunnels of the Blackmoor dungeon would run very far across Blackmoor's underworld. Some tunnels would connect these dungeons with the ones below Glendower. Others would most likely run all the way southwest to the Stormkiller Mountains. -Havard Connecting to Glendower and Stormkiller mountains is awesome! Thank for the "note". So many seeds for story and role play. It seems that the more i read FFC, the more is found within it to piece together a fleshed out setting. Been meaning to grab up "Dungeons of Castle Blackmoor" in paperback and trying to find a cheaper copy. Besides all the d20 crunch i'm sure it'll be a good read. Am i right that this book does not have the tunnels? |
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mannclay
Level 4 Theurgist
...you know what you are not, what you are you cannot know... - insane sorcerer
Posts: 116
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Post by mannclay on Feb 13, 2014 13:33:20 GMT -6
Where did you find a copy of FFC without paying the national debt of Brazil for it? Hey wait a moment...you are one of the original players! Thanks for chiming in on this little thread. I wanted to ask, do you remember anything about going through those tunnels? I'm looking for a hint on how they were explained/role-played. Any hint (even a made up one to shut me up) would suffice. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2014 15:15:29 GMT -6
Diagonal tunnels are there to f*** up the players' maps.
How were they done... um... "Ten feet, twenty feet south. Passage south ends. Passage NE ten feet wide, passage SW ten feet wide."
Or is that not what you mean?
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mannclay
Level 4 Theurgist
...you know what you are not, what you are you cannot know... - insane sorcerer
Posts: 116
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Post by mannclay on Feb 13, 2014 15:31:22 GMT -6
Diagonal tunnels are there to f*** up the players' maps. How were they done... um... "Ten feet, twenty feet south. Passage south ends. Passage NE ten feet wide, passage SW ten feet wide." Or is that not what you mean? hehe...yes, i guess that's the way they were explained. Just like a dungeon. |
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Post by Finarvyn on Feb 13, 2014 16:41:26 GMT -6
Yeah, Dave loved irregular rooms and hallways in strange directions just to mess up the players drawing maps. I also throw in other strangeness like hallways that overlap and look like they should cross but don't.  |
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mannclay
Level 4 Theurgist
...you know what you are not, what you are you cannot know... - insane sorcerer
Posts: 116
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Post by mannclay on Feb 13, 2014 19:47:55 GMT -6
It is pretty interesting to compare these to the dungeon maps from Dungeons of Castle Blackmoor (d20 Book) which provides the same scale for all dungeon levels. Note that the tunnels of the Blackmoor dungeon would run very far across Blackmoor's underworld. Some tunnels would connect these dungeons with the ones below Glendower. Others would most likely run all the way southwest to the Stormkiller Mountains. -Havard Havard, do you mean the Stormkiller Mountains in the South East?? I'm referring to the d20 Blackmoor map. |
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Post by havard on Feb 14, 2014 5:30:05 GMT -6
South East, yeah sorry Stormkiller is home to a large Orc population so that would explain why the Orcs love to hang out below the Castle. -Havard |
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mannclay
Level 4 Theurgist
...you know what you are not, what you are you cannot know... - insane sorcerer
Posts: 116
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Post by mannclay on Feb 14, 2014 11:30:58 GMT -6
South East, yeah sorry Stormkiller is home to a large Orc population so that would explain why the Orcs love to hang out below the Castle. -Havard Cool. I was totally looking all over the place in the west for those mountains...hehe |
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Post by aldarron on Feb 15, 2014 20:01:47 GMT -6
South East, yeah sorry Stormkiller is home to a large Orc population so that would explain why the Orcs love to hang out below the Castle. -Havard Cool. I was totally looking all over the place in the west for those mountains...hehe The cardinal orientation of the JG maps is problematic on a number of fronts - discussed here odd74.proboards.com/thread/4664/blackmoor-town-dungeon-alignmentAs for the diagonals of the dungeon - that's a signature of a DA dungeon. You'll see the same thing with ToTF and GPoD. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2014 22:16:43 GMT -6
Gary used to love curved passages, and he'd describe them in "points"... ten feet, twenty feet, thirty feet you've turned about one point north... And they were never uniform radius.
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mannclay
Level 4 Theurgist
...you know what you are not, what you are you cannot know... - insane sorcerer
Posts: 116
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Post by mannclay on Feb 19, 2014 7:29:07 GMT -6
Well, Sirs...I wanna say thanks for the info I find the tunnels extending far fromm the castle, even far to the Stormkiller Mountains to be amazingly inspiring. |
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Post by Stormcrow on Feb 24, 2014 16:03:50 GMT -6
Gronan, how were the players to understand what a "point" was? If you were going west and he said, "10, 20, 30 feet and 1 point north," what had happened? I'm not familiar with this usage.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2014 0:38:54 GMT -6
Heh. The "point" was to be confusing (hurr hurr hurr, point, get it? See what I did there? Huh? Get it? Wakka wakka wakka!).
In sailing parlance, a "point" is 1/16 of a circle; N to NNE is 1 point East.
I say again, the referee made mapping as difficult as possible; there was no expectation that the players would have a letter-perfect map, they were lucky if they got out alive.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2014 9:40:03 GMT -6
I say again, the referee made mapping as difficult as possible; there was no expectation that the players would have a letter-perfect map, they were lucky if they got out alive. One thing I'll never understand is that if the point was to make mapping difficult, then why put the map on graph paper in the first place? Maps written on regular paper (like the one in Dungeon!) always seem more cool. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2014 12:30:52 GMT -6
It is the players' choice to use graph paper. As referee I draw my maps on graph paper so I have some idea of dimensions, because players could certainly pace things off (and the movement rates assume they are). The ten foot square is for the referee's convenience.
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