Hardback Progress (Oct 2013)

[waysoftheearth]

For those that are not following the DD G+ Group, here's a progress report on the DD hardback:

* I have previously been referring to the hardback project as "DDNext", but the title of the hard back edition will actually be the "Delving Deeper Reliquary".

* I have recently taken ownership of the beautiful front-back wrap around cover art by Jim Holloway, which features a purple worm bursting out the floor amid a group of adventurers. I'm planning to put together a mock cover before I share it publicly.

* Mark Allen is presently working on an illustrated DD character sheet which will be freely downloadable as soon as it's ready.

* The alpha version of the text has been public for a month or so, and has shaken out enough corrections for me to send the beta version off to a professional proof reader. By the time DDNext is in print it will surely be a contender for the most frequently proofread text in the OSR?


I can't give an official release date yet, but I sure would love to have it ready by Christmas. I suspect I may already be too late for that... but we'll see.

[strangebrew]

^ a whole lot of goodness in that there post

[mgtremaine]

So looking forward to it!!! I've been using the Alpha rules as my go to document, it's very solid. For anyone who has not grabbed it you should! The more eyeballs the better.

-Mike

[bestialwarlust]

Oct 25, 2013 7:31:10 GMT -6 mgtremaine said:

So looking forward to it!!! I've been using the Alpha rules as my go to document, it's very solid. For anyone who has not grabbed it you should! The more eyeballs the better.

-Mike

Same here. I actually incorporated my house rules into it. Formatted it all pretty added some pictures and printed it out had it spiral bound to have my players use.

[waysoftheearth]

Very cool bestialwarlust! Great to hear people are genuinely using it

[Koren n'Rhys]

Ways, When did the hardback version become full letter-sized? I thought this was going to be a digest HB, like John released for his version of WhiteBox. Did I miss something, or just misinterpret your intensions from the start?

[waysoftheearth]

Oct 26, 2013 20:27:31 GMT -6 Koren n'Rhys said:

When did the hardback version become full letter-sized?

I've never had any plan to do a letter-sized hardback.

I recently mentioned (on the G+ group) that I printed out the beta version of text as "100 letter-sized pages in a nice big reading font" but that was only a loose leaf print out for proof reading purposes. To be quite truthful that particular hard copy was actually printed A4-sized on my office laser printer.


My first preference for the real print run of the hardback was always to do crown-quatro size because I thought that could cut 15% off the page count and hence be a little bit cheaper for everyone. But it turns out the savings aren't what I'd hoped, so digest-sized is still looking very probable (subject to final costings from my printer).

I'll keep you appraised of developments, never fear

[grubman]

I for one would rather see it in a regular 8 1/2 x 11 format. First off, it's much easier to use as a reference book. There are less pages to flip through and it sits flat on the table. Second, as I get older (45), as the majority of people who will appreciate this product are, my eyesight gets worse, and squinting at little tiny font's on little tiny pages just plain sucks (almost as much as reading glasses). Finally, I just think it all makes for a more attractive and traditional presentation presentation, large double column with nice artwork (I hope there is plenty of good old school artwork accompanying a good layout).

I know digest sized RPG books seem to be all the rage, and there is a novelty in keeping OD&D clone books in the digest sized format...but most of these digest sized games tend to be things that sit on bookshelves, or are read for entertainment. If you want your game to be played, a textbook sized format can't be beat IMHO.

For the record, I like the idea of a durable library bound book...but with POD you can offer the book in a variety of formats (soft cover, hard cover, large format, digest format) without any cost to yourself. But, I'm sure you know that already.

Not trying to dis the project...just stating one mans desire to see a fully functional DD rulebook.

[funkaoshi]

I'm actually on the other side of the fence. I find A5 books are much nicer to use at the table, if only because they eat up much less space. I find them easier to flip through, etc. I think the nicest rule book I own right now is the Rules and Magic book from Lamentations of the Flame Princess, which is A5. The Dungeon Crawl Classics rule book is your traditional giant text book. I basically always use the PDF on my iPad as a reference rather than the actual book. It's so unwieldy. It's nice to flip through and look at the art, but it's not actually useful as a rule book while playing.

As I understand things, the only reason TSR switched to the bigger format for their books was because they look better on bookshelves in bookstores.

[machfront]

I like them both to be honest. But I do more often find larger books to be more unwieldy than I find smaller books to be more cumbersome due to page count. I'll fully admit to simply thinking smaller books are 'cool'.
I don't think font size is an issue. My digest sized S&W WhiteBox and Corgi Tunnels & Trolls rulebooks have the same font size as most of my full-size books.
Hm.
I take that back. Comparing the Corgi T&T book to Moldvay Basic (both use the font Soutane or whatever it's called), the smaller T&T book actually has a larger font size. (to say nothing of the enormous font in WhiteBox compared to those...little specks of dust that pass for letters in the AD&D hardbacks)

But were it possible, I'm sure we'd all prefer the books...all the rpg books...to be bound as well as the AD&D handbacks. Those things were made of concrete.

[waysoftheearth]

Oct 27, 2013 16:53:35 GMT -6 machfront said:

I'm sure we'd all prefer the books...all the rpg books...to be bound as well as the AD&D handbacks. Those things were made of concrete.

Don't worry guys, proper, section sewn hardback binding is of utmost importance to me, and the DD hardback will be section sewn.

[machfront]

Oh. Seriously? I was just day-dreaming. Well that's super news, ways.
(now just give the Thief better hit dice than the Fighter, cap M-Us and Clerics at level 3 and I'll be totally happy )

[Koren n'Rhys]

Thanks for the clarification -that's good to hear. It was indeed that G+ comment that threw me.
I'm with machfront here, that a nice larger font digestnformat will be epic. The S&W digest is very much readable, even to my older eyes. While I understand grubman's concerns, smaller page wise does not have to equate to a small font size.

Looking forward to the end result in whatever format you decide to publish.

[waysoftheearth]

Oct 27, 2013 18:16:02 GMT -6 machfront said:

Oh. Seriously? I was just day-dreaming. Well that's super news, ways.
(now just give the Thief better hit dice than the Fighter, cap M-Us and Clerics at level 3 and I'll be totally happy )

DD thieves do have it pretty good machfront.

They level up quickly, they have 67% chance of doing all the "thiefy stuff" (including surprising bad guys) from the get go, they're not disallowed shields, they are allowed missiles (as in slings), their backstab is arguably better than in Greyhawk, they cast any M-U spells from scrolls at level 9+, and they top out at 7 HD same as M-Us and clerics (though admittedly they need twice as much XP as do cleric to get there). As far as thieves tend to go I think they're pretty compelling

[Falconer]

One vote for small font sizes, here.

[waysoftheearth]

Oct 29, 2013 10:57:52 GMT -6 Falconer said:

One vote for small font sizes, here.

Font size, and layout decisions in general, will be guided by graphic design and readability best practices (well, my own superficial understanding of these things).

I've played with a bunch of test layouts in search of the most satisfactory balance between one or two columns, margins and spacing, number of characters per line, and overall number of pages. It's a non-trivial exercise (to say the least!), and ultimately will come down to a subjective decision on my part; "What feels best".

I think the font size will end up being something like what appears in the 3LBBs. The typeface, spacing, margins, and so on are likely to different. I'll post a few previews to gauge opinion before it get too far to change, don't worry

[grubman]

I assume it will also be available in pdf so people like me can print it up to "normal sized" pages, or print our own personal hard back copies? (really can't stand the little book format...just personal preference)

[waysoftheearth]

Oct 30, 2013 10:35:21 GMT -6 grubman said:

I assume it will also be available in pdf so people like me can print it up to "normal sized" pages, or print our own personal hard back copies? (really can't stand the little book format...just personal preference)

I haven't given it much thought as yet, but probably yes.

[Craig J. Brain]

Oct 27, 2013 20:32:03 GMT -6 Koren n'Rhys said:

Looking forward to the end result in whatever format you decide to publish.

+1 to that!

I am enjoying the boxed set, but the hardback will be convenient.

Craig J. Brain

[grubman]

Any chance of you posting a preview of some interior artwork?

[waysoftheearth]

Nov 2, 2013 7:42:19 GMT -6 grubman said:

Any chance of you posting a preview of some interior artwork?

I might post a few previews as the layout progresses, but I also want to hold a few goodies back so the hardback has some Wow! left on the day

[exploderwizard]

I have a quick DD question. Are there any more boxed sets for sale and if so where do I order? Thanks.

[mgtremaine]

Boxed sets where made by Bravehalfing aka John Adams. You would have to ask him, but I suspect the answer is no.

-Mike

[waysoftheearth]

Nov 4, 2013 11:14:26 GMT -6 exploderwizard said:

I have a quick DD question. Are there any more boxed sets for sale and if so where do I order? Thanks.

mgtremaine is correct exploderwizard, you'll have to ask John about the boxed sets.

If it helps, you may be interested to know that you can still download v1 of the DD Ref Rules and the v1 errata sheet (the rules upon which the DD Boxed booklets were based) from here.

[exploderwizard]

Nov 4, 2013 19:37:30 GMT -6 waysoftheearth said:

Nov 4, 2013 11:14:26 GMT -6 exploderwizard said:

I have a quick DD question. Are there any more boxed sets for sale and if so where do I order? Thanks.

mgtremaine is correct exploderwizard, you'll have to ask John about the boxed sets.

If it helps, you may be interested to know that you can still download v1 of the DD Ref Rules and the v1 errata sheet (the rules upon which the DD Boxed booklets were based) from here.

Thanks will do. I already have the booklets,and printed a set for myself with cardstock covers plus a few extra copies of The Adventurer's Handbook for players.