Prime Requisite and XP

[Finarvyn]

I've been thinking about "Prime Requisite" and how it affects experience points. While what PR actually means (actually change stats versus "virtual" change) may be a topic for another thread, I thought I'd focus on the effect of high or low PR.

The book says that PR of 15+ (for example) gains a character +10% XP. What that means is that each character has to track his own value, which isn't hard but is one additional detail to keep. What I did was reverse the whole thing and create a table that calculated different XP numbers for each category of player.

Now, I know that +10% XP (the example cited above) isn't quite the same as "lowering the bar" to 90% of the base XP, but that's what I did in my excel spreadsheet. So, what I have in the graphic below is the number needed to advance in levels for five different cases:
1. PR less than 6; 110% of base.
2. PR 6-8; 105% of base.
3. Average PR (9-12); base.
4. PR 13-14; 95% of base.
5. PR 15 or higher; 90% of base.

Anyone interested in this? Is this "better" in any way than the BTB version?



EDIT: Fixed the chart to reflect the error pointed out by Ways.

[waysoftheearth]

I think it's a neat idea Fin, but by the book a PR of 3-6 or 7-8 yields a -20% or -10% XP penalty, respectively (rather than -10% or -5%), so BTB you'd need more XP than indicated if you had those lower PRs.

[Finarvyn]

Nice catch. Should be fixed now.

[talysman]

I did something similar: I redefined experience from the point of view of PR = 3 and added a table for how much extra xp is earned for those with PRs higher than 3

Liber Zero Experience Tables

Our numbers match for the core three classes. I did something a little different for the thief, because of the way I round it to two significant digits:

Liber Zero Thief Experience Table

However, I think we're both wrong. What we need to do is calculate how much XP a PR 3 character of each class would have earned if the character wasn't PR 3. I think you need to earn 25% more as a PR 3 character (80 is 100 - 20%, 100 is 80 + 25%.) But I haven't tested this.

[aldarron]

You fellers might be interested to know that the "lower the bar" method is the method given in the Dalluhn/Beyond This Point be Dragons D&D draft. According to "Table 3: Bonuses and Penalties to Advancement" a prime requisite -3 or more requires +25% change in xp neede to level, whereas prime requisite +3 allows one to lower the exp required to level up by 10%. Prime requisite +1 gets you 5% less xp needed, but prime requisite -1 requires 10% more XP. to level. I followed this method for Champions of ZED.

[Deleted]

If you are using a system where the XP table varies based on the character's prime requisite, how do you handle the situation where a character's prime requisite changes? He might suddenly gain or lose a level.

[talysman]

Jul 29, 2013 9:08:53 GMT -6 @hedgehobbit said:

If you are using a system where the XP table varies based on the character's prime requisite, how do you handle the situation where a character's prime requisite changes? He might suddenly gain or lose a level.

Well, why would a character's prime requisite change?

If you mean the prime requisite literally changes (from Strength to Intelligence, for example,) the only reason that would happen that I can think of is changing classes. The new prime requisite affects new experience earned, not old experience already earned.

If you mean the score increases/decreases because of magic, again, the new score applies to new experience earned. It doesn't affect experience already earned, although that would be an interesting house rule... In fact, since pre-Greyhawk Strength, Intelligence and Wisdom have little effect, increasing or decreasing a level would be a good way to represent the effects of a change in Strength or Intelligence.

[Deleted]

Jul 29, 2013 11:42:17 GMT -6 talysman said:

If you mean the score increases/decreases because of magic, again, the new score applies to new experience earned. It doesn't affect experience already earned, although that would be an interesting house rule.

Yeah, for example a 4th level fighter with a Strength of 12 and 15,500 XP drinks from a magic pool (naturally) and gains +1 Strength. Now he's 5th level.

[Deleted]

....remembering to add 10% to your XP is considered difficult? Seriously?

[geoffrey]

Those tables are instructive for how much slower or faster a character can advance based upon his prime requisite score. Thanks, Fin!

[Stormcrow]

Jul 29, 2013 21:56:45 GMT -6 @gronanofsimmerya said:

....remembering to add 10% to your XP is considered difficult? Seriously?

Well, I wouldn't say it's—SQUIRREL!!!

[busman]

You've done XP*.9, you should do XP/1.1to get your charts right. Also, it's pretty easy to do 10% on the fly. Plus, by doing it on the fly, you can adapt to a character gaining or losing attribute points during an adventure. Point changes were always more frequent in the old days, for me at least.

[Deleted]

Anyone wanna double-check these?

For an adjustment of    -20%    -10%    +5%     +10%
divide XP required by   0.8     0.9     1.05    1.1



L   Cleric      PR 3-5      PR 6-8      PR 9-12     PR 13-14    PR 15-18
1   Acolyte     0           0           0           0           0
2   Adept       1875        1667        1500        1429        1364
3   V. Priest   3750        3334        3000        2858        2728
4   Vicar       7500        6667        6000        5715        5455
5   Curate      15000       13334       12000       11429       10910
6   Bishop      31250       27778       25000       23810       22728
7   Lama        62500       55556       50000       47620       45455
8   Patriarch   125000      111112      100000      95239       90910

L   Fighter     PR 3-5      PR 6-8      PR 9-12     PR 13-14    PR 15-18
1   Veteran     0           0           0           0           0
2   Warrior     2500        2223        2000        1905        1819
3   Swordsman   5000        4445        4000        3810        3637
4   Hero        10000       8889        8000        7620        7273
5   Swashbklr   20000       17778       16000       15239       14546
6   Myrmidon    40000       35556       32000       30477       29091
7   Champion    80000       71112       64000       60953       58182
8   Super Hero  150000      133334      120000      114286      109091
9   Lord        300000      266667      240000      228572      218182

L   Magic-User  PR 3-5      PR 6-8      PR 9-12     PR 13-14    PR 15-18
1   Medium      0           0           0           0           0
2   Seer        3125        2778        2500        2381        2273
3   Conjuror    6250        5556        5000        4762        4546
4   Theurgist   12500       11112       10000       9524        9091
5   Thaumaturg. 25000       22223       20000       19048       18182
6   Magician    43750       38889       35000       33334       31819
7   Enchanter   62500       55556       50000       47620       45455
8   Warlock     93750       83334       75000       71429       68182
9   Sorcerer    125000      111112      100000      95239       90910
10  Necromancer 250000      222223      200000      190477      181819
11  Wizard      375000      333334      300000      285715      272728

L   Thief       PR 3-5      PR 6-8      PR 9-12     PR 13-14    PR 15-18
1   Apprentice  0           0           0           0           0
2   Footpad     1500        1334        1200        1143        1091
3   Robber      3000        2667        2400        2286        2182
4   Burglar     6000        5334        4800        4572        4364
5   Cutpurse    12000       10667       9600        9143        8728
6   Sharper     25000       22223       20000       19048       18182
7   Pilferer    50000       44445       40000       38096       36364
8   M. Pilferer 75000       66667       60000       57142       54546
9   Thief       112500      100000      90000       85715       81819
10  M. Thief    156250      138889      125000      119047      113637