od&d in Nehwon?

[cleverkobold]

Not sure if this is the right board for this, but...

Hey everybody. With a successful campaign ending, it's time to prepare for another. It will be set in Nehwon. I had originally intended to use the PDQ# RPG for the campaign but the more I think about it, the more I want to get back to playing od&d, and to give chainmail combat a shot (which I have never done before). I have played lots of od&d, but never in a setting so far from 'generic' fantasy. If you were running an od&d+chainmail came set in Nehwon, how would you tweak the rules to fit the setting? Which classes would you use, which would you omit? How would you deal with magic and magic using PCs? Any advice on the subject, including general tips for using chainmail with d&d would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[Mushgnome]

A good place to start might be AD&D Deities & Demigods (aka Legends & Lore) which has stats (ridiculously inflated, in some cases) for the Nehwon monsters, gods, and NPCs.

Chainmail, a miniatures wargame, seems an odd choice for a setting based on the exploits of individual, roguish heroes.

If you go with OD&D, then you'll definitely want the Greyhawk Supplement so you can use the Thief class. Beyond that, I'm not sure what rules "tweaks" would really be necessary? Generally, my philosophy is to imply setting through storytelling rather than making players learn new rules. Does Lankhmar have fighters? Check. Magic users? Check. Clerics? Check. Thieves? Hells yeah! Sounds like D&D to me.

[cleverkobold]

I do have a copy of legends and lore, that I will be using as a bit of reference. You're probably right with regard to chainmail, I guess it might not be the best fit (I was kind of looking for any excuse to give it a try ).

I'm mainly concerned with little things like whether or not I should allow clerics, or if simply changing the names of MU spells would be enough to convey the S&S tone or if a different magic system, like the one in Crypts and Things, might work better.

Thanks for the input.

[Mushgnome]

One idea for your magic system: Check out what waysoftheearth does in his Deep in the Hinterlands PbP on these forums. My PC's spells in that campaign have mystical names like "The Acclivitous Smaze" and "The Rhyme of Exiguous Glamour" but are mechanically similar to well-known classic D&D spells.

One of the players in my Arkham campaign has renamed his Sleep spell to "Rest thine head, my oppressor"--I think that is pretty cool!

[cleverkobold]

I like that a lot, and will definitely go with weird occult sounding names. The only thing that I would like to see, is a system in place that allows for the long, drawn out, ritual spell casting that we see in the stories (Hristomilo's magic in Ill Met in Lankhmar), to go along with the more 'traditional' magic, which is also present in the source materials (Wizard snipers in The Swords of Lankhmar).

I agree that ideally things will go better, the less tampering you do; but if there had to be a single house rule, it should be something to reward PC spell casters for taking their time, with ritualized magic.

[waysoftheearth]

Jun 3, 2013 18:28:01 GMT -6 cleverkobold said:

if there had to be a single house rule, it should be something to reward PC spell casters for taking their time, with ritualized magic.

How about...
Magic-users can cast any spell without memorising it, by reading it aloud, furiously with accompanying pageantry. This takes, say, one turn (ten minutes) per spell level to complete, but doesn't consume text.

[akooser]

This isn't specific to Nehwon but here are some house rules we use for the S&S feel using OD&D

Use a modified Dyson Logos 2d6 Thief
Thieves can Open Locks, Move Silently, Hide in Shadows, Climb Sheer Surfaces, Tinker, and Hear Noises. Tinker is the thieves ability to fiddle with magical devices and figure out how they work.

Magic Users
2 flavors depending on what you want
Magic Users function as they do under the Into the ODD rule set. Magic Users use devices or items of power instead of spells. Bad things always happen.

Sorcerer - Remove all direct damage spells. Use Spell Complexity from Chainmail. On a failure put the user in a bad spot.

Remove clerics

[cleverkobold]

ways & akooser, great ideas.

I think i'll go with a combo of the magic systems you guys suggested. I really like the three outcomes of the chainmail magic, and also the fact that (if I'm reading it correctly) any spell caster can at least attempt any spell they know. Perhaps, if a spell is read "aloud, furiously with accompanying pageantry", then the caster may attempt to make the casting roll as if they were three levels higher. How does that sound?

[Finarvyn]

Jun 3, 2013 17:22:39 GMT -6 cleverkobold said:

Not sure if this is the right board for this, but...

If you look farther down the boards you should find a section devoted to Fritz Leiber and his Nehwon/Lankhmar fiction.

I may move this thread there later.

In general I'd say that using OD&D and/or Chainmail in Lankhmar is an easy enough thing to do, especially since Lankhmar was one of the key "Appendix N" inspirations for the game.

A couple of thoughts off the top of my head:

1. You could use Chainmail combat or OD&D "Alternate" combat equally well. There are some great threads in the Chainmail section of the boards that discuss how to use Chainmail. I have a way to blend the two systems that I'm playtesting with my group and will probably post soon...

2. Fighters and thieves are clearly found in Nehwon. Assassins would work pretty well as well.

3. Magic-users are pretty common but you may not want them to be PCs. The old TSR 2E "Adventures in Lankhmar" rules set suggested that clerics be replaced with "white wizards" who act more or less like clerics but not actually worshiping deities. (You might recall that in the stories there are many "gods" with no real power.) If you go the NPC wizard route, this works well for sending characters on various quests.

4. I don't recall any examples of monks or druids, but I can't see why you couldn't use them. I suppose it comes down to how "canon" you want your campaign to be.

5. If you can find it (and if you are willing to pay the price) there was an old TSR board game called LANKHMAR which had a map I really like. Mostly because it was done with hexes, and I like tp use hexmaps for my land movement. The boardgame also had a list of quests, since this was one of the key victory conditions for the game.

More if I think of it...

[dizzysaxophone]

R.C. Pinnel/Thorkhammer made a combat charter, using the alternate combat system in OD&D, but incorporating the chainmail system of Man, Man+1, Hero, Hero+1, etc.. into it. You can find it in the OD&D forum on DF. It may be a nice mix of the more intracateness of Chainmail combat and the familiarity of OD&D 'Alternate combat'.

I apologize if Thorkhammer has also posted it here and I've just not run across it yet!

[cleverkobold]

Jun 4, 2013 9:27:00 GMT -6 Finarvyn said:

If you look farther down the boards you should find a section devoted to Fritz Leiber and his Nehwon/Lankhmar fiction.

I am aware of the Leiber and Lankhmar board, but I posted this in general because it seemed to fit into several different sections. If you feel like it's more appropriate somewhere else, feel free to move it.

Jun 4, 2013 13:46:56 GMT -6 dizzysaxophone said:

R.C. Pinnel/Thorkhammer made a combat charter, using the alternate combat system in OD&D, but incorporating the chainmail system of Man, Man+1, Hero, Hero+1, etc.. into it. You can find it in the OD&D forum on DF. It may be a nice mix of the more intracateness of Chainmail combat and the familiarity of OD&D 'Alternate combat'.

I just read it, it makes sense but it seems to take away the part of chainmail combat that I like the most; the troop type vs. troop type tables. Though it occurs to me that it might be a good way to handle missile combat. 


Thanks for the continuing advice and suggestions.

[cleverkobold]

When it comes to a Nehwon campaign, the normal non-human classes would obviously not be included, and my gut feeling says to disallow even the 'canon' non-humans (Ice Gnomes primarily) as PCs; but I'm wondering if I should include the semi-human races (Ghouls, and possibly were rats)as options for PCs. If you were running this campaign, what woud you do?

[dizzysaxophone]

yeah I understand that. Just wanted to give you an option of an attempt to mix the two.