ASSH as a Standard Fantasy Ruleset

[Cthulhu Colin]

Hey all,

So, we love Hyperborea, but ASSH is also obviously ideal for use as a standard fantasy ruleset too. The one thing it's missing (apart from some of the more typical monsters like kobolds) is rules for non-human races. So, how about we create our own rules for Elves, Dwarves, Halflings, etc. for ASSH use? This gives us the opportunity to avoid relying on level limits (which only have an impact if a campaign lasts that long), instead balancing the races with appropriate weaknesses, XP penalties so they advance more slowly, etc. instead.

Colin

[Cthulhu Colin]

As an example, let's start thinking about Elves.

The typical elf is more graceful (Dex), intelligent (Int), and attractive (Cha) than a human. However, perhaps they should not be able to reach the same levels of strength as a human (limit to Strength), and while they may be healthy and fit, probably can't withstand as much damage due to their more slender frame (HP penalty perhaps?). They may also be somewhat capricious and impulsive (Wis penalty perhaps?).

In 1e they have resistance to sleep/charm, a minor bonus to use of short/long bows/swords, infravision (low-light vision makes more sense, imo), the ability to notice secret doors (always odd; should it instead be an improved sense of vision?), and the ability to surprise others (indicating some stealth). So, we can take some of these abilities/concepts and spin off them.

Colin
In literature, Elves are fae, and the biggest weakness of fae is iron. Perhaps Elves should find iron (and to a lesser extent its alloys) deleterious (so iron/steel weapons do more damage to them, they cannot bear or wear iron/steel arms and armour, etc.)? That would be a significant balancing factor in and of itself.

[Cthulhu Colin]

As an idea of different takes on the trad abilities, let's look at the bonus to long/short bows/swords. In 1e this is a +1 attack bonus. Boring.

Instead, how about they gain proficiency in one weapon of choice from that list, for free, at 1st level, but when they develop additional proficiencies at later levels or if they have to select weapon masteries, they *have* to pick from that list. So, a bonus, but also a limitation enforcing the racial concept. If the class already has proficiency in the weapon/weapons, they gain mastery in it for free instead (if a Fighter or subclass thereof).

[mabon5127]

Colin,

One of the things I like the most about ASSH is the lack of differentiation between the races. Except for some very minor things like life span and the Atlanteans ability to breathe water they are pretty much the same. This allows players to role-play a cool race without feeling cheated because they didn't take the "right" race to play a certain class.

That being said I would leave characteristics alone and for non-human races give "class-like" abilities to simulate the race, but very sparsely.

Dwarves may have a lower movement but additional saving throw mods vs poison. They may also have "endurance" that allows travel for days on end without sleep or some such representing their general hardiness.

Elves may have increased movement with bonus save mods vs sorcery but use a max hit die of d8 and have "perception" as a bonus to being ambushed and maybe a bonus of +1 to ac based on natural quickness.

This is just off the top of my head but you get my point.

Morgan

[Cthulhu Colin]

I absolutely love the human(ish) only default and lack of abilities too, but for a more trad setting than Hyperborea, some stuff to differentiate the demi-humans is needed. I like the idea of forgoing racial attribute mods in favour of setting strict attribute mins and maxes for each race. Nothing higher than 18 (a musclebound half-orc is no more powerful than the most musclebound human, f'rinstance), but definite highs and lows that attributes must fall between to reinforce the relative strengths of weaknesses of each. So, even the mightiest halfling won't have a Strength 18.

The races could have racial abilities, but these would have to be offset with disadvantages as we both noted. Real drawbacks including slower advancement, this reinforcing the human as the swiftest to learn, develop, and adapt. However we do it, the human should not end up as the poor cousin.

Colin

[mabon5127]

Would it be enough to say that the demi-human races would not get class bonus to xp for higher attributes?

As far as racial caps go Str is probably the most likely candidate as the "smaller" races could not achieve the higher #'s as you have already said. The other attributes may not need tweaking as badly if at all.

I agree completely with your thoughts about humans. Some systems make the other races so uber cool / powerful you wonder how humans made the cut at all.

Morgan

[Ynas Midgard]

I don't have my books at hand right now, but for Elves, I would simply use the Warlock class, as it blends the traditional Fighting-Man and Magic-User pretty well.

More on the other races when I get home.

[Cthulhu Colin]

The Warlock is ideal if you're going for the B/X-style race-as-class Elf, but for AD&D-style campaigns, you'll need separate race and class.

[rabindranath72]

I have been thinking of doing the same since I got the game, but I haven't had time to write anything down. My idea was to follow AD&D's framework, as I'd use the game as a replacement for AD&D and I'd want as close a match as possible. Most of the things would translate mostly as-is, with the exception of thief skill bonuses.

I recently acquired Menzoberranzan book (which is very nice, by the way!) and thought about using it as a campaign framework for an AS&SH game; I'd need to stat the drow, but everything else would fit quite well.

[mabon5127]

Colin,

Will you be pursuing this or still gathering thoughts?

Morgan

[Cthulhu Colin]

I will be pursuing this, have no fear.

Colin

[Cthulhu Colin]

Quick post from France. Very early start, subject to revision and comments. More a placeholder.

DWARF
Att. Mins: Str 9, Con 9
They're densely muscled and boned with barrel chests, large lungs, and strong natural resistances. They're also used to toil.
Att. Maximums: Dex 15, Cha 15
They're short, stumpy, and grumpy.
Class Restrictions (optional): Fighter, Cleric, Thief, Priest, Assassin, Scout, Purloiner
Racial Weapons (pick one proficiency for free at 1st but must select new profs from list at later levels): Axe (hand, battle), Hammer (war), Pick (war). If class already proficient, gains Mastery for free, but only with the free prof selected at 1st and only if Fighter or subclass.
Thief Ability Mods: -2 Climb, +1 Manipulate Traps, +1 Open Locks
Benefits: Dark Vision (bw only, ruined by nearby light), save bonus vs. poisons/arcane magics (+1?), Stone cunning, bonus fighting giants (+1 AC?).
Drawbacks: Slow, sink like a stone (can't swim), weapon max length WC 3 (no longbows either), must always save even vs. beneficial arcane magics (resistance is resistance and cannot be turned on/off at whim), no XP bonus for high attributes.

Ideally, it should come across as fairly balanced when finished.

[Cthulhu Colin]

So, should dwarves have Dark vision? In the literature, their halls are always lit with torches. Should it be kept for the sake of tradition?

Should the bonus AC vs. giants also be a +1 attack bonus vs. trad foes such as goblins?

[Mjollnir]

Aug 11, 2013 8:30:20 GMT -6 Cthulhu Colin said:

So, should dwarves have Dark vision? In the literature, their halls are always lit with torches. Should it be kept for the sake of tradition?

Should the bonus AC vs. giants also be a +1 attack bonus vs. trad foes such as goblins?

No

Maybe, it'd be nice as an option, with strings attached, like barely controllable fury that would prevent Thorin from effectively parleying with the Goblin King, despite the fact that failing to do so will have really bad consequences.