How DW plays from the Tékumel thread

[akooser]

I don't like quoting from the rulebook but the next couple of post set the framework for how DW plays.

Playing Dungeon World means having a conversation; somebody says something, then you reply, maybe someone else chimes in. We talk about the fiction—the world of the characters and the things that happen around them. As we play, the rules will chime in, too. They have something to say about the world. There are no turns or rounds in Dungeon World, no rules to say whose turn it is to talk. Instead players take turns in the natural flow of the conversation, which always has some back-and-forth. The GM says something, the players respond. The players ask questions or make statements, the GM tells them what happens next. Dungeon World is never a monologue; it’s always a conversation.

The rules help shape the conversation of play. While the GM and the players are talking, the rules and the fiction are talking, too. Every rule has an explicit fictional trigger that tells you when it is meant to come into the conversation.

Like any conversation, the time you spend listening is just as important as the time you spend talking. The details established by the other people at the table (the GM and the other players) are important to you: they might change what moves you can make, set up an opportunity for you, or create a challenge you have to face. The conversation works best when we all listen, ask questions, and build on each other’s contributions.

[akooser]

Both Players and MC (errr DM) have explicit rules to follow.

Player Rules
Moves are rules that tell you when they trigger and what effect they have. A move depends on a fictional action and always has some fictional effect. “Fictional” means that the action and effect come from the world of the characters we’re describing. In the move above the trigger is “when you attack an enemy in melee.” The effect is what follows: a roll to be made and differing fictional effects based on the outcome of the roll.

A character can’t take the fictional action that triggers a move without that move occurring. For example, if Isaac tells the GM that his character dashes past a crazed axe-wielding orc to the open door, he makes the defy danger move because its trigger is “when you act despite an imminent threat.” Isaac can’t just describe his character running past the orc without making the defy danger move and he can’t make the defy danger move without acting despite an imminent threat or suffering a calamity. The moves and the fiction go hand-in-hand.

[akooser]

MC Rules

• Describe the situation
• Follow the rules
• Make moves
• Exploit your prep

• Portray a fantastic world
• Fill the characters’ lives with adventure
• Play to find out what happens

• Draw maps, leave blanks
• Address the characters, not the players • Embrace the fantastic
• Make a move that follows
• Never speak the name of your move
• Give every monster life
• Name every person
• Ask questions and use the answers
• Be a fan of the characters
• Think dangerous
• Begin and end with the fiction
• Think offscreen, too

MC Moves (but never say your move)
• Use a monster, danger, or location move • Reveal an unwelcome truth
• Show signs of an approaching threat
• Deal damage
• Use up their resources
• Turn their move back on them
• Separate them
• Give an opportunity that fits a class’ abilities
• Show a downside to their class, race, or equipment • Offer an opportunity, with or without cost
• Put someone in a spot
• Tell them the requirements or consequences and ask

[Falconer]

I think I understand. It sounds at first like Rulings, not Rules turned on its head. But the real point, it seems to me, is this: Whereas in OD&D you immerse yourself in a character, and roll to use every resource available to your character in order to triumph, in DW you take a step back and think of yourself as a co-author of a story, and roll to effect cinematic outcomes. In OD&D, you don’t worry about story as you play — yet a great yarn can emerge in the session recap. In DW, you DO worry about story as you play. But at least, unlike classic narrativism, the GM doesn’t have a story pre-written (railroad).

[akooser]

Falconer Yup, that is pretty close.

Here is a session from tonight from a google+ On Air

Setup is an old creepy house full of unpleasantness. We need to retrieve an urn.

Starts around 40:00 (contains some swearing and drinking)
www.youtube.com/embed/XmasHJlInbQ

The stuff from 0:00-40:00 is eating and character generation.

[greentongue]

I get the feeling that it would lend itself well to Play by Post games. What do you think and have you tried that?
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*spelling

[akooser]

greentongue

I've never tried it. I assumed there would be a bandwidth problem (lack of quick responses, maps, etc ).

The game suffers some in google hangouts do to a lack of being able to draft maps rapidly.

At the table we usually have a large piece of paper that everyone can draw on as needed.

That said, give it try! I'd be curious to see how it works.

[alcyone]

I feel like sort of a jerk because I wanted to dislike this Dungeon World, for common and boring reasons, but it looks from the linked video like you were having a lot of fun, and besides the specific rules, it looked a lot like D&D to me. Have an exalt for being a brave diplomat on an old-school board.

[akooser]

Having a friendly forum like this makes it a little easier.

alcyone if you took away the references to the player moves it would sound even more like a D&D session

I still love me some OD&D but I also like DW.

Tuesday nights is our ODD game (different crew) and I have a long running DW game at work on Thursday. So I get the best of both games!

[machpants]

I think the big thing that both traditional D&D of the OS style and DW do is the narrative. Traditional D&D is much more about the players describing the characters actions than rolling a dice to see if it works. DW does this too, just chat what you are doing and only roll when what you describe has a chance of failure. I was going to play DW with my boys but ended up going S&W as I just feel more comfortable with trad D&D rules (whatever edition it is all I have known) but DW is sure on my radar for later, esp if S&W doesn't gel with my kids!

[Ynas Midgard]

Another important difference (although not as emphasised as in Apocalypse World) is that the characters do not exist in a vacuum: not only the world reacts to them but they react to each other (hence the Bond rules).

Traditional D&D does not care about that. PCs go on adventures together - and that's it.

[akooser]

machpants World of Dungeons would be right up your ally. It's a completely stripped down DW.

[machpants]

Yeah I have that and never really looked at it, I'll check it out thanks

[kesher]

akooser: great thread--keep it going!

Falconer: holy crap. You just succinctly described something I've never been able to clearly articulate to people (at least not clearly enough). Awesome.

[Falconer]

Heh, thanks, guys. Maybe I should have finished with, “And that’s why DW doesn’t sound like my cup of tea AT ALL,” but if it does for you, more power to you. ;-)

[kesher]

Heh. That's even awesomer.

[eldrad]

The rules are CC so here they are.

book.dwgazetteer.com/

There are also free PDFs of DW here but NONE of the cool layout and art. :

github.com/jjafuller/dungeon-world-custom-build/blob/master/build/dungeon-world.pdf

[akooser]

From over at storygames someone smarter then me talks about the difference between DW and D&D

"
I think the most important part is to embrace the intended relationship between D&D and DW.

Arguably, one thing that D&D is is a set of methods for creating play.
- There's the 4E method of creating interesting set piece fights with interesting terrain and all that.
- There's the sandbox method of creating a world around the characters that they can freely explore. (Western Marches style games)
- There's the story module method of guiding players through a set of encounters that follow a pregenerated plotline. (The linked module sets that started, I think, in the early 90s, but don't quote me on that)
- There's the character progression of following the characters through a development path toward greatness (Adventurer, Conqueror, King style)
- There's the dungeon-as-gauntlet method of challenging the players directly and treating the characters as pawns.
- And there are probably others I haven't mentioned. (And please don't knit-pick the hell out of the list. I'm not trying to do perfect-to-the-word with gamer history analysis here.)

A thing that people have done for a long time is to play using one of those methods, but using a different ruleset. I ran a sandbox style game using early D&D modules converted to a Savage Worlds hack, for example. That's "Playing D&D, but using different rules".

Playing DW isn't that.

DW is a different method of play. It's it's own thing.

When you are playing DW, D&D provides CONTEXT to play, not METHOD.

I would say that the biggest thing to focus on when looking at DW is to look at all the places where decisions are made at the table, not before you get to the table. Look for the subtle ways the game encourages co-authoring between the GM and the players. Some of the fundamental things that drive the method of play in DW that are:

Play to find out what happens - Plan a little, but don't overplan. And in particular, don't plan outcomes. Don't even plan events beyond starting events. Just plan some people and places that might be fun to use, and then use them when you need something cool.

Draw maps, leave blanks - Again, prep a little, but don't try to fill it all in. Fill in some of it on the fly, based on what the players are doing, saying, being.

Ask questions and use the answers - Not just "don't overprep" but also "don't overproduce". Let the players produce answers too, and then use them.

Embrace these things. Overemphasize them.
"

[kesher]

Nice!

[greentongue]

Should be comfortable to OD&D players. More player input into setting but it is not uncommon a DM listens to player input before and after games so, why wait?
=

[Deleted]

ive tried but not my cup of tea

[skars]

Dungeon World in a nutshell (and how my kids were able to grok it quickly):

1. Choose something you want to do
2. Choose a move or select an ability score that applies
3. roll 2d6 and add the ability score modifier (loosely equivalent to d20)
4. 10+ you succeed, 7-9 you succeed with a complication, 6- you fail but get an experience point.

With another family, we have taken our girls through the classic U series and we are now on U3 The Final Enemy.

[Finarvyn]

I bought a copy of Dungeon World a fewe months ago. (I have a hard time passing up on "digest" format rulebooks, even those which are roughly 400 pages. )

Seems like an interesting enough rules set, but I've never played it. My main problem is that I read something like this, then ask "is it better than OD&D?" and decide that it isn't.

May 15, 2013 21:12:15 GMT -6 eldrad said:

The There are also free PDFs of DW here but NONE of the cool layout and art. :

github.com/jjafuller/dungeon-world-custom-build/blob/master/build/dungeon-world.pdf

Is there a trick to the download? I followed the link but it took me to a place that didn't look like a PDF.

[Deleted]

I just finished a 6 month DW campaign.

It plays EXACTLY like OD&D, with a minor difference in what kind of dice you roll when.

"Just tell me what you're doing, I'll tell you if you need to roll dice" goes all the way back to Dave Wesley's BRAUNSTEIN.

I like DW just fine, but it's nothing new.