The Norse culture in ASSH

[blackknight]

For those who want to get an excelent feel of the Norse, and want to flesh out the norse area in the game, you should watch the new show in History channel. That's right History channel..

As a somwhat learned Norse History buff, I recomend the series so far. I've seen some small mistakes, but for the most part they have it right. Definately check it out...

[Ghul]

I enjoyed the first episode. Of course, minor things like modern cosmetics for the female characters, and also questionable was the architecture of the houses, but the longboat looked pretty good. One crazy guy named Loki doing it all himself . . . meh. So, all in all, I found it entertaining, with little nitpicks as you mentioned.

[blackknight]

Yes, My Biggest issue was the "town" layout and the type of buildings. Then the makup, but it is known they used "some" makup in that period (Mostly Berries, Flowers and earth based pigments (crushed mineral powders etc)), but nothing that would have made them look that good, especially that the show is based in the very beginings of the Viking period. I would expect more makup and better living conditions more to the 1000 time, rather than in the 750s. Lastly was the longship. It itself was very accurate, but you are correct, Loki would have not been able to build it on his own. A minimum of 2-3 people would be required.

[blackadder23]

I'll have to check it out, since I'm a history fan as well.

To be quite honest, the usefulness of material like this depends on the attitude of the DM. Speaking strictly for myself, one of the benefits of Jeff using mostly "real world" nationalities for Hyperborea is that I don't have to write some elaborate description of every culture - everyone already "knows" what Vikings are like: they ride around in ships with dragon heads, raiding the coasts, draped in furs and brandishing axes, wearing the inevitable horned helmets. Of course, some of what people "know" about Vikings is historically inaccurate, but I'm not inclined to correct it for a couple of reasons. First of all, I don't really think you can make a reasonable argument that the cultures in Hyperborea must be (or would be or should be) identical to their real world historical counterparts. It's been at least two thousand years since any of them migrated to Hyperborea (per the rulebook) and that's a very long time for culture and technology to remain unchanged. It would take the real world Scandinavians from barely out of the Bronze Age to the Jet Age. Certainly horned helmets would not be too great of a leap in that time period. I can understand making them identical to their real world historical counterparts for purposes of convenience - since honestly, who can really say what they would look like after two thousand years in Hyperborea? - and I encourage anyone who wants to go this route to do so. But of course "convenience" is exactly why I'm choosing to go with the popular image of the various cultures in the game. The second reason I'm disinclined to correct popular ideas about Vikings is that I would then have to write a lot of stuff for my players about how Vikings really wore crummy plain helmets, and chain mail instead of furs, and mostly wielded spears instead of axes. That's all fine if a DM wants to handle it that way, but to me that defeats the entire purpose of using popularly understood cultures in the game. If I'm going to have to write a dissertation about each culture anyway, I might as well just create them from scratch, and I have no desire to do that. Finally, Vikings in furs with horned helmets and axes are just much cooler. ;D It's practically axiomatic.

So my Vikings are big bruisers in furs and horned helmets who will split your skull with an axe. My Amazons are also draped in furs and wear bosom-enhancing armor. My Picts run around naked and painted blue. My Kelts wear tartan and burn their captives alive in giant wicker men. My Eskimaux all look like Nanook of the North. I fully respect and endorse the decision of anyone who wants to put in a lot of historical research about these cultures (even if I personally feel it's a bit quixotic, given the length of time they've supposedly spent in Hyperborea) and then communicate this to their players. For myself, background is just that: background. I would much rather say "These are standard issue Hollywood Vikings as you know and love them" and be instantly comprehended. Then we can get on with the actual adventure.

[Ghul]

Well said, ba23. One thing I keep in mind, when considering cultural advancement over millennia, is that (using the AS&SH Vikings as an example) there were only a handful of longboats that first emigrated from Old Earth. They had to start over, and this, to my way of thinking, will greatly stagnate cultural and technological advances; not to mention the horrors from without populating the realm of Hyperborea. I'm not a stickler for Vikings exclusively clad in furs, however, in the centuries following the Green Death, as man is an adaptable ape. Of course, YMMV!

[blackadder23]

To be honest, I see most characters wearing furs in Hyperborea, at least during some years. It's cold! ;D

[Ghul]

Mar 5, 2013 14:29:28 GMT -6 blackadder23 said:

To be honest, I see most characters wearing furs in Hyperborea, at least during some years. It's cold! ;D

Quite so!

Or perhaps your Vikings can be clad in Izod sweaters . . .

[Cthulhu Colin]

Maybe we should all do a History Monkeys dance?

In terms of Hyperborea's cultures, I think the easiest route is the one of convenience as per ba23's note. One thing I'd love to do is do short writeups for each culture (no more than two pages apiece) that outline the basic elements of each (gender roles, religion, typical professions, outlook, key festivals/rites, typical dress, etc.). But, as it's only two pages maximum, it's very much a skeleton rather than something fully fleshed out. That way you've got a foundation for the GM to build upon, not everything is spelled out, and exceptions can abound to taste.

Colin

[Chainsaw]

Lacoste or nothing, man.

[Ghul]

Mar 5, 2013 16:15:55 GMT -6 Cthulhu Colin said:

Maybe we should all do a History Monkeys dance?

In terms of Hyperborea's cultures, I think the easiest route is the one of convenience as per ba23's note. One thing I'd love to do is do short writeups for each culture (no more than two pages apiece) that outline the basic elements of each (gender roles, religion, typical professions, outlook, key festivals/rites, typical dress, etc.). But, as it's only two pages maximum, it's very much a skeleton rather than something fully fleshed out. That way you've got a foundation for the GM to build upon, not everything is spelled out, and exceptions can abound to taste.

Colin

Colin, do you envision this as an extension of the arms and armour cultural piece, or something completely different? Sounds to me like the two would work best as single article, but we can chat about this via email . .

[jasonzavoda]

I'm working on a Norse/Viking adventure at the moment.

The Norse in my ASSH campaign are a grim people who have lost their link to immortality either through heroic actions as worshipers of Odin or through service to their clan as worshipers of Freya. Warriors tend to brashness and arrogance, always seeking glory in their worship of Ullr, but a self-aggrandizing glory placing all else second, including loyalty to clan or family.

There is still a secret worship of Odin, Freya, Thor (and even Loki) among the Norse people of Hyperborea (though many of the other Gods and Goddesses have been forgotten, even by the skalds). The Priestesses of Ullr try their best to stamp out these worshipers of the Old Faith, but they have little to offer those who work the land or serve the more powerful members of their clans. The priestesses are haughty and distant toward the common people and demand payment for any aid they would dispense. Warriors receive a blessing from the priestesses only if they have the gold, gems or other treasure to pay the offering price.

The skalds who were once well-respected have become no more than minstrels to the Norse people. Secretly they are the priests of Odin and they spread his worship as much as is possible under the watchful eye of Ullr's priestesses. Skalds can spend no more than three days among any Norse town or village and must constantly wander among their own people.

This first Norse/Hyperborean adventure I'm working on has a town that is being haunted by the spirit protectors of their grave-yard (spirits called Landvoettir). They are too frightened to find out what is wrong for themselves and need to hire a group of heroes or adventurers to walk among the graves and barrows and find out what has upset the protector spirits and the dead.

In my campaign this leads to much bigger things, but I am taking a heavy hand to my Hyperborea campaign so some key elements for later adventure can be ignored by other DMs.

[mabon5127]

Jun 5, 2013 16:33:50 GMT -6 jasonzavoda said:

Secretly they are the priests of Odin and they spread his worship as much as is possible under the watchful eye of Ullr's priestesses. Skalds can spend no more than three days among any Norse town or village and must constantly wander among their own people.

Ah heresy. I really like this angle.

Morgan

[Ghul]

Jun 5, 2013 17:16:27 GMT -6 mabon5127 said:

Jun 5, 2013 16:33:50 GMT -6 jasonzavoda said:

Secretly they are the priests of Odin and they spread his worship as much as is possible under the watchful eye of Ullr's priestesses. Skalds can spend no more than three days among any Norse town or village and must constantly wander among their own people.

Ah heresy. I really like this angle.

Morgan

Me too. Great ideas, Jason, and I'm delighted to see you active here again. You've got a fertile mind for ideas!

[benoist]

Yeah I riffed off the Vikings in AS&SH as well. The PCs in my game have taken over a mercenary Viking ship with a crew that doesn't like the worshippers of Ullr and identifies strongly with the "Old Faith". They cry "FOR ODIN!" when going into battle and so on. The Viking dynamics in my Hyperborea are actually a possible venue of discovery and developments for the PCs, if they choose to care for it.

Likewise, I embrace the pulp of AS&SH. Some historical bits or details are fine, but I'm not about to make a history lesson about Horned helmets when the same Vikings could hold laser guns and have their brains stolen by the Mi Go, if you see what I mean. Actually, the clichés are really part of the pulp feel of the game, to me. Now, I also detail a lot of stuff, like the Half-blood picts being kind of my fantasy version of the first nations living around where I live, on the Central Coast of British Columbia, but I also embrace the pulp feel of it all, and don't want it to actually be historically "correct", on purpose.

There needs to be a place for one's imagination in this game, and it is there in part because of its pulp affiliation. In spades, actually.