Post by blackadder23 on Feb 5, 2013 10:44:19 GMT -6
(This was inspired by an interesting side conversation we were having in another thread. I wanted to start a new thread on this specific topic to avoid dragging the other thread completely off topic. 
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This is how I intend to handle the alignment of gods in my campaign. Chaos, Law, and Neutrality are metaphysical realities, and each god is metaphysically associated with one of the three. Chaos is the fabric from which the Black Gulf is made, and constantly streams onto Hyperborea from the Gulf. Hyperborea, being a piece of structured and orderly Old Earth, is formed from the stuff of Law (as presumably are other planets like Yuggoth – note that the Mi-Go are Lawful Evil). The ferment where Law and Chaos meet creates the force of Neutrality. The Lawful fabric of Hyperborea is crumbling beneath the constant bombardment of Chaos from the Gulf, and eventually it will disintegrate. Because this is sword and sorcery and not high fantasy, the players can do nothing about any of this (even if they know or care about such abstract concerns, which is doubtful) and their only real option is to eat, drink, be merry, and (perhaps) win some meaningless local and temporary victories over the inevitable triumph of entropy.
Good and evil are human perspectives, not metaphysical reality. The gods themselves (except Thaumagorga, who per Jeff is “only” a supersized demon) are above the petty human concepts of good and evil, which I connect to having or lacking a code of honor. Human concepts of honor mean nothing to the gods. But that doesn’t mean (in my campaign) that every god will have both good and evil worshippers. Gods with a very malevolent portfolio, with an active and intelligent malice toward mankind, or with mostly evil nonhuman worshippers will either require or inspire acts of evil from the majority of their human worshippers as well. In other words, the gods themselves are above good and evil, but they have attributes that may strike human worshippers as being either good or evil and attract followers of that particular nature. Gods with apparently evil attributes will have few, if any, good worshippers, although some Neutrals may appease them out of fear. (I stress again that this is my view for my campaign, and others can and should handle it however they want.) This is how I see the various gods of Hyperborea:
Apollo and Artemis have fairly benevolent portfolios (for Hyperborean gods) and many of their worshippers are probably LG. Paladins in my campaign will be devoted champions of one of these gods. However, these gods will also have some LE fanatics as followers, as well as a fair number of Neutrals.
Aurorus has obscure motives, which may or may not include malice toward mankind, and a mixed portfolio. She likely has both good and evil worshippers (or appeasers) as well as Neutral ones.
Azathoth is an idiot god who lacks malice, but his portfolio is highly malevolent and many of his followers are evil nonhumans. Probably most of his human worshippers are mad, if not evil.
Boreas would seem to be uncaring toward humanity, although his portfolio is somewhat malevolent from a human perspective. Per the rulebook, he has few worshippers of any kind, but I can imagine people of any alignment trying to appease him under certain circumstances (e.g., sailing near the edge of the world or travelling through wastes blasted by the Boreas).
Helios has a somewhat benevolent portfolio (for a Hyperborean god) and represents a phenomenon that all can see in the sky. I can see him having worshippers of all alignments.
Kraken has a very malevolent portfolio, even if his actual malice toward humanity is unclear. I regard most of his worshippers as evil, plus some Neutral appeasers.
Krimmr is literally uncaring and has a mixed portfolio. He probably has CG and CE worshippers as well as many Neutral ones.
Kthulhu has a very malevolent portfolio and an intelligent malice toward mankind. The vast majority of his worshippers are nonhuman, but the human ones tend to be CE.
Lunaqqua has a not especially malevolent portfolio and represents celestial phenomena visible to all. She probably has worshippers of all alignments.
Mordezzan is probably uncaring toward mankind, except as carrion to devour, but he has a malevolent portfolio and his nonhuman followers are quite evil. I imagine his human followers are mostly evil as well, with some Neutrals of a fatalistic or philosophical bent.
Rel has a mixed portfolio and a certain affinity (if not liking) for mankind. I see him having worshippers of all non-Lawful alignments.
Thaumagorga, per the rules, is actually evil in the human sense. His worshippers would be LE and CE, with perhaps some Neutrals who appease him out of fear.
Tlakk-Nakka has a fairly malevolent portfolio and doesn’t care who or what she eats. I see her as having both evil and Neutral followers, but few good ones.
Ullr has a mixed portfolio and is in effect the god of almost all the Vikings in Hyperborea. He probably has Viking worshippers of all alignments, though tending toward CG/E and Neutral.
Xathoqqua is the (self-appointed?) chief god of Hyperborea. His portfolio is mixed but tends toward the malevolent. Xathoqqua seems to be a bit of a malicious trickster, although he might actually succor humans if he isn’t hungry (or simply on a whim). Or he might just eat them. As chief god of Hyperborea he naturally has worshippers of all alignments, even some Lawful appeasers.
Yig has a somewhat mixed portfolio and a cruel nature, and his nonhuman followers are evil and filled with hatred for mankind. Most of his human worshippers are probably LE, but I can see certain aspects of his portfolio attracting Neutrals as well.
Yikkorth is technically Neutral and has a mixed portfolio, but he has demonstrated malice toward mankind (to put it very mildly). I see most of his worshippers as evil (especially his sorcerer-priests) but some Neutrals may appease him out of fear.
Ymir has a mixed portfolio and many evil nonhuman worshippers. He probably is worshipped by Vikings of all sorts, much like Ullr, but with a slightly higher proportion of evil followers.
Yoon’Deh has a somewhat mixed portfolio (though not that bad for a Hyperborean god) and used to be widely worshipped. She likely has worshippers of all alignments, with a large number of Neutrals.
Ythaqqa has a highly malevolent portfolio and an intelligent malice toward mankind. I see his followers as CE, with some Neutrals who appease him out of sheer terror. (I see Kthulhu as having fewer Neutral appeasers because he's not running loose at the moment.)
Yug may or may not have intelligent malice toward mankind (although Lovecraft's Yog Sothoth certainly does) but his portfolio is malevolent and literally inhuman and his nonhuman followers are evil. Most of his rare human followers are probably mad if not evil. I can see a few Neutrals of an eccentric philosophical bent following him as well.
These are just general guidelines for my campaign, not hard and fast rules. Quirky individuals (like, for example, PC’s) may not always follow them. Somewhere in my version of Hyperborean there probably is a CG witch who reveres Kthulhu while acting benevolently, or even more than one such witch. But actual organized Kthulhu cults are cutting the hearts out of shrieking virgins tied to sacrificial slabs, because that’s what best pleases their malicious god (to the extent that anything humans do pleases him at all). In my opinion (and this is only my opinion for my campaign) too much “moral relativism” both violates the spirit of the original pulps and can also lead to sessions where players spend all their time debating what to do rather than doing it. That’s frankly not what I want at my table. If I wanted to run a White Wolf game (not very likely), I’d just run one. So I agree 100% with Jeff’s decision to include alignments in the game (as much as it was criticized by some reviewers who think they understand pulp fantasy) and I don’t intend to do anything to vitiate those alignments. This is not a criticism of those who intend to downplay alignments, or even remove alignments from the game. It’s just how I intend to handle things in my game, based on my understanding of pulp fantasy.
How do you intend to handle alignment and the gods in your campaign?
)This is how I intend to handle the alignment of gods in my campaign. Chaos, Law, and Neutrality are metaphysical realities, and each god is metaphysically associated with one of the three. Chaos is the fabric from which the Black Gulf is made, and constantly streams onto Hyperborea from the Gulf. Hyperborea, being a piece of structured and orderly Old Earth, is formed from the stuff of Law (as presumably are other planets like Yuggoth – note that the Mi-Go are Lawful Evil). The ferment where Law and Chaos meet creates the force of Neutrality. The Lawful fabric of Hyperborea is crumbling beneath the constant bombardment of Chaos from the Gulf, and eventually it will disintegrate. Because this is sword and sorcery and not high fantasy, the players can do nothing about any of this (even if they know or care about such abstract concerns, which is doubtful) and their only real option is to eat, drink, be merry, and (perhaps) win some meaningless local and temporary victories over the inevitable triumph of entropy.
Good and evil are human perspectives, not metaphysical reality. The gods themselves (except Thaumagorga, who per Jeff is “only” a supersized demon) are above the petty human concepts of good and evil, which I connect to having or lacking a code of honor. Human concepts of honor mean nothing to the gods. But that doesn’t mean (in my campaign) that every god will have both good and evil worshippers. Gods with a very malevolent portfolio, with an active and intelligent malice toward mankind, or with mostly evil nonhuman worshippers will either require or inspire acts of evil from the majority of their human worshippers as well. In other words, the gods themselves are above good and evil, but they have attributes that may strike human worshippers as being either good or evil and attract followers of that particular nature. Gods with apparently evil attributes will have few, if any, good worshippers, although some Neutrals may appease them out of fear. (I stress again that this is my view for my campaign, and others can and should handle it however they want.) This is how I see the various gods of Hyperborea:
Apollo and Artemis have fairly benevolent portfolios (for Hyperborean gods) and many of their worshippers are probably LG. Paladins in my campaign will be devoted champions of one of these gods. However, these gods will also have some LE fanatics as followers, as well as a fair number of Neutrals.
Aurorus has obscure motives, which may or may not include malice toward mankind, and a mixed portfolio. She likely has both good and evil worshippers (or appeasers) as well as Neutral ones.
Azathoth is an idiot god who lacks malice, but his portfolio is highly malevolent and many of his followers are evil nonhumans. Probably most of his human worshippers are mad, if not evil.
Boreas would seem to be uncaring toward humanity, although his portfolio is somewhat malevolent from a human perspective. Per the rulebook, he has few worshippers of any kind, but I can imagine people of any alignment trying to appease him under certain circumstances (e.g., sailing near the edge of the world or travelling through wastes blasted by the Boreas).
Helios has a somewhat benevolent portfolio (for a Hyperborean god) and represents a phenomenon that all can see in the sky. I can see him having worshippers of all alignments.
Kraken has a very malevolent portfolio, even if his actual malice toward humanity is unclear. I regard most of his worshippers as evil, plus some Neutral appeasers.
Krimmr is literally uncaring and has a mixed portfolio. He probably has CG and CE worshippers as well as many Neutral ones.
Kthulhu has a very malevolent portfolio and an intelligent malice toward mankind. The vast majority of his worshippers are nonhuman, but the human ones tend to be CE.
Lunaqqua has a not especially malevolent portfolio and represents celestial phenomena visible to all. She probably has worshippers of all alignments.
Mordezzan is probably uncaring toward mankind, except as carrion to devour, but he has a malevolent portfolio and his nonhuman followers are quite evil. I imagine his human followers are mostly evil as well, with some Neutrals of a fatalistic or philosophical bent.
Rel has a mixed portfolio and a certain affinity (if not liking) for mankind. I see him having worshippers of all non-Lawful alignments.
Thaumagorga, per the rules, is actually evil in the human sense. His worshippers would be LE and CE, with perhaps some Neutrals who appease him out of fear.
Tlakk-Nakka has a fairly malevolent portfolio and doesn’t care who or what she eats. I see her as having both evil and Neutral followers, but few good ones.
Ullr has a mixed portfolio and is in effect the god of almost all the Vikings in Hyperborea. He probably has Viking worshippers of all alignments, though tending toward CG/E and Neutral.
Xathoqqua is the (self-appointed?) chief god of Hyperborea. His portfolio is mixed but tends toward the malevolent. Xathoqqua seems to be a bit of a malicious trickster, although he might actually succor humans if he isn’t hungry (or simply on a whim). Or he might just eat them. As chief god of Hyperborea he naturally has worshippers of all alignments, even some Lawful appeasers.
Yig has a somewhat mixed portfolio and a cruel nature, and his nonhuman followers are evil and filled with hatred for mankind. Most of his human worshippers are probably LE, but I can see certain aspects of his portfolio attracting Neutrals as well.
Yikkorth is technically Neutral and has a mixed portfolio, but he has demonstrated malice toward mankind (to put it very mildly). I see most of his worshippers as evil (especially his sorcerer-priests) but some Neutrals may appease him out of fear.
Ymir has a mixed portfolio and many evil nonhuman worshippers. He probably is worshipped by Vikings of all sorts, much like Ullr, but with a slightly higher proportion of evil followers.
Yoon’Deh has a somewhat mixed portfolio (though not that bad for a Hyperborean god) and used to be widely worshipped. She likely has worshippers of all alignments, with a large number of Neutrals.
Ythaqqa has a highly malevolent portfolio and an intelligent malice toward mankind. I see his followers as CE, with some Neutrals who appease him out of sheer terror. (I see Kthulhu as having fewer Neutral appeasers because he's not running loose at the moment.)
Yug may or may not have intelligent malice toward mankind (although Lovecraft's Yog Sothoth certainly does) but his portfolio is malevolent and literally inhuman and his nonhuman followers are evil. Most of his rare human followers are probably mad if not evil. I can see a few Neutrals of an eccentric philosophical bent following him as well.
These are just general guidelines for my campaign, not hard and fast rules. Quirky individuals (like, for example, PC’s) may not always follow them. Somewhere in my version of Hyperborean there probably is a CG witch who reveres Kthulhu while acting benevolently, or even more than one such witch. But actual organized Kthulhu cults are cutting the hearts out of shrieking virgins tied to sacrificial slabs, because that’s what best pleases their malicious god (to the extent that anything humans do pleases him at all). In my opinion (and this is only my opinion for my campaign) too much “moral relativism” both violates the spirit of the original pulps and can also lead to sessions where players spend all their time debating what to do rather than doing it. That’s frankly not what I want at my table. If I wanted to run a White Wolf game (not very likely), I’d just run one. So I agree 100% with Jeff’s decision to include alignments in the game (as much as it was criticized by some reviewers who think they understand pulp fantasy) and I don’t intend to do anything to vitiate those alignments. This is not a criticism of those who intend to downplay alignments, or even remove alignments from the game. It’s just how I intend to handle things in my game, based on my understanding of pulp fantasy.
How do you intend to handle alignment and the gods in your campaign?
I will be happy if anyone finds anything to inspire them in any of my posts. (Although I can't post my most devious stuff because my players might see it.