Gamer Stereotypes

[doc]

I grew up playing D&D in the 80's where, if you were a gamer, you were expected to fall into certain very negative stereotypes. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. Gamers were seen as socially inept, overweight, hygienically challenged, uncoordinated, perpetually celibate geeks who were unpopular and completely unable to relate to any situation that lacked extensive rules and funny dice.

Yet, I never really found that this stereotype actually held true.

When I was in school I wasn't one of the most popular kids, but I certainly had friends and was generally well liked. I was athletic and usually had a girlfriend. Heck, I even showered twice a day! And the same seemed to hold sway for most of the folks that I've gamed with then and since. There are always a few gamers here and there that are out of shape or have poor social skills, but they seem to be the exception rather than the rule.

So the big question is, how did this sterotype begin? Were gamers in the mid-70's actually that different that non-gamers began to see negative patterns? Even in recent TV shows and films (like Futurama and Shrek) gamers are seen as social misfits. It is common for people to distrust any group that is somehow different from themselves and attatch negative connotations to that group, but if there is no truth to the stereotype, how is it that you think that it has existed for so long? I have my own ideas, but I'd be interested in hearing some of yours.

Doc

[Stonegiant]

Down here in Jack Chick country gamers were considered the spawn of satan. I remember clearly the posters around town advertising book and record burnings. The situation here was also made worst by the fact that it seemed that everyone who was into D&D was also a long haired metal head and that just cemented the idea that we were all practicing the black arts.

[Falconer]

I’ve known gamers who did and gamers who did not fit the stereotype. So I really wouldn't say the stereotype is never true, but on the other hand I will say I have never had a problem attracting players to my game who were great friends in any social context, perfectly adept socially and hygenically and sexually.

I think gaming is something geeks can safely enjoy—and I think that’s great—, but I think it’s also something that non-geeks can enjoy just fine. When did the stigma come in? Or is it more than a stigma, and did the domination of complex rulesets and angst-ridden genres forever mark the utter triumph of geekdom in our hobby?

Think about it. Can an average adult walk into Target, or even a hobby shop, and pick up any RPG out of the blue that could possibly appeal to him?

The LotR movies years were probably the ideal opportunity to introduce people to the hobby, but could the average person possibly make heads or tails out of the Decipher game? Regards.

[Deleted]

stonegiant said:

Down here in Jack Chick country gamers were considered the spawn of satan

Same here; I'm about 3 & 1/2 hours to your SW.

I've always been a big guy, but I never got picked on in school (my fists took care of that). I've always been a very clean person, had (& still have) a small cadre of close friends, dated a girl (or 2) in high school, am now happily engaged, & I'm still the same guitar-playing thrasher weirdo I was in high school.

Now, I have ran into the "Stereotypical Gamer" a bit here & there, but for the most part, the people I've played with (& continue to play with) are all pretty normal, whatever that means. My friends I game with run the gamut: Art Teacher (my better half , Corrections Officer, Motorcycle Mechanic, Insurance Adjuster, etc.

I personally have no clue how the stereotype came to be. People say that there is a little truth behind every stereotype, but this one just gets me. Is the "Stereotypical Gamer" that widespread? I'm pretty curious myself, & would love to read all your stories... ;D

[Zulgyan]

The art has all the blame...

[Finarvyn]

Ever go to GenCon? If you do, wear a black t-shirt and a backpack, don't shower, and you'll blend right in. At a Games Workshop's Games Day con you'll see similar people, so it's not just a D&D thing. I suspect that a lot of "gamer geeks" out there fit the sterotype and didn't even know it. I'm not sure where the stereotype got started, but it's alive today.

Gaming is a hobby that requires a certain level of intellect and creativity and hours of study so it's not really for the majority of the people out there. (At least from the GM side of the screen; players don't need to know the rules or be quite as creative.) I'd say that for my gaming group growing up, the hardcore gamers fit the stereotype pretty well (except that we were all clean) while some of the players didn't. I sponsored a game club for a couple of years in the 1990's at the high school where I teach and the majority of the kids fit the stereotype pretty well.

Now my group is mostly adults and we have a range of people. One guy is a nerdy engineer, one an ex-jock teacher, a former cheerleader, a former dancer. Not really a group to fit the stereotype anymore, but most of them don't GM, either.

Also, it's worth noting that the more mixed the gender of the group, the less likely it is that they fit the sterotype (in my experience).

[Finarvyn]

falconer said:

The LotR movies years were probably the ideal opportunity to introduce people to the hobby, but could the average person possibly make heads or tails out of the Decipher game?

This is one of the most insightful quotes I have seen in a long time. If RPGs want to become "mainstream" like Monopoly, the only way to do it would be to find something like LotR or Harry Potter that reaches the non-gamers and produce a game that is fun and playable for them to learn. Decipher did have an "Adventure Game" that was simple and a lot of fun, but it was also very limited in usefulness and didn't seem to show up in game stores or toy stores for the regular consumer to find.

We needed something like OD&D or Holmes Basic to be released with LotR artwork and some measure of product support. Sadly, that time has come and gone and I think Decipher really dropped the ball. Heck, they were putting out game sourcebooks for Fellowship of the Ring and the Two Towers, but never (to my knowledge) even published one for Return of the King. The LotR franchise was like gold when combined with movie releases, and they screwed it up.

On the other hand, I know of several people who had never played miniatures gaming before who found their way into the hobby because of the entry-level LotR products made by Games Workshop. At least the Brits seem savvy in this regard.

[Stonegiant]

Fin- you beat me to the convention observation

As far as a mainstream RPG, I think you would have better luck with Harry Potter or Narnia. I think a Narnia RPG would be an especially good tool for mainstreaming the RPG because the religious argument couldn't be used against it and you don't have the author alive to drop any character background bombshells on you.

[Deleted]

admin said:

Ever go to GenCon?

Nope. I've never had the opportunity to go to any convention. Maybe someday...

[Wothbora]

My dad was a Pastor and I had to work through "Middle Men" to acquire my D&D books. Long story short, that's why I ended up with Holmes Basic (I think in 1978 or 79) instead of OD&D as my neighbor a "traveling salesman" thought that he was doing me a favor by (in his own words), "I bought you the BIG Colored Box, even though that guy at the hobby store said that he had the original White Box. I knew you'd want this newer one!" When I see what those White Boxed Sets go for on eBay it makes me cringe...

Sadly, I ended up going the route of AD&D because Holmes referred to it so much. The D&D aspect of my life was pretty much hidden because I knew what the Fuddy-Duddy's were saying in the church about "Dungeons and Demons" and other such nonsense. Seems like I was always taking the Player's Handbook to school and whipping it out and reading it (and the DM Guide) during Study Hall in High School.

Yep, I was a typical Nerd that played D&D. I'm athletic enough to hold my own, but I was pretty much of geek that could count close friends on one hand and friendly acquaintances on my other hand and ten toes (maybe). Since I didn't have much of a social life (heck, at that time even "Dancing" was against my religion) I did a lot of reading and researching stuff for D&D that would never see the light of day (my few friends were even nerdier than I was and didn't play D&D).

I went to College in '82 and broke out of my shell and saw that D&D didn't have the stigma that it held in my Northern Wisconsin town. Played D&D with everyone from Jocks to Geeks and we all had a blast. In fact, due to my interest in researching everything from History to Anthropology to Culture to Fantasy to etc. it became apparent after I finished my BA in Theology that I wouldn't be satisfied to end up in a pulpit. Hence, I went on and received my Masters in Library Science. And here I am 30 years later, playing the Original Game with my youngest and actually reading posts from those who played the game before it was even called D&D. And when one of the "Originals" answers a question of mine, or responds via PM it's like I've been given a backstage pass. It is absolutely awesome!

I guess I really never thought about being a Nerd Stereotype when I was growing up. And now, heck, I think it is kind of cool that I got to where I'm at even though I was considered "uncool" back in the day. And this group gives me a new understanding of the "My Space Phenomena" as I'm as addicted to reading everyone's post here to the point that my teenage daughters whine to my wife and say, "Dad won't get off the computer. He's doing his Nerd Stuff again, and said he'd just be a couple minutes, but it's been an hour!" To which I smile and revel in all my Geeky Glory and think, "You Betcha, and ain't it great!"

Todd "the Viking King" AKA Wothbora

[oldgamergeek]

yes sir the nerd club stereotype some of my group fit it ( most ) some ( few ) did not . most of the kids in school did not mess with the nerds as one of ours had cops and civil rights lawyers in the family and more than a couple of us could handle things ( a couple of football jerks found out the hard way ) .

[redpriest]

As for the gamer stereotype at conventions? Amen, sad to say. It's a shame that before accepting a new gamer into your group these days, one of your initial questions needs to be, "Do you bathe?"

The college crowd circa 1980 was very tolerant and curious of the D&D thing. We ran our games every Friday night in the science building and while the typical player group was about 8, it was nothing for us to run a game with 12 or 14 players and I think our record was up around 20. I'd guesstimate the gender mix to be around 65-35 male-female.

For whatever reason, I don't think the college crowd is as curious or tolerant of the game as they were back then. I don't know exactly why, but likely years of propaganda and conditioning have taken their toll. Back then, the derision machine wasn't quite in full gear.

[jjarvis]

While in school the only cliche that really held true was we were all Sci-fi/fantasy fans. One group I played with was mostly martial arts fans, hunters and shooters (the folks i lived with is included ) another group was video game playing jocks.
Sure we often wore balck T-shirts and listened to odd music but we were teenagers..90% of teenagers did that in those days.

A friend and I attended a hardcore game CON for our first time and we were overcome by the smell a sort of melange of cheetos, my.dew and unwashed socks...we were amazed the stereotype was seemingly true.

[edsan]

My two cents...

I don't know where these rumors originated from, but that is what they are. Rumors, pure and simple. And false rumors at that.

I have been to several conventions in my time and I must say the whole "fat, smelly and geeky looser" image all gamers supposedly suffer from not only does not apply, it is actually pretty d**n rare, more so than other circles I have come into contact with.

The two things that impressed me the most in my first UK cons where the age span of people involved (from 12 year old kids to veterans pushing 60) and the share amount of successful people that play RPGs. In a D&D living campaign I once was it seemed as everyone had a degree, a very nice job and earned enough money to buy a house and travel abroad on holidays.

The whole "celibate" bit is even more untrue. I have been in more than one group where the ladies outnumbered the gents; I've had a group where I was the only male and I must say some of the prettiest and attractive (looks and/or personality) women I've met where gamers. I've also played with a lot of couples.

Of course...there are gamers out there, whole groups even who might fit the stereotype like an old, comfortable shoe. But you can find any type of people in any niche if you look deep enough. But taking them as the standard is childishly naive.

Saying gamers are mostly obese, asocial, stinky kinds living in mum's basement (where the f*ck does this come from? I have never even heard of anyone I know playing in any type of basement) is like saying "most sports fans are arseholes". I'm sure you look far enough you will find a few that are. Does that mean most of them are indeed like that?...wait don't answer that. Bad example.

Actually, I will go as far as saying one of the defining traits of our hobby is that the people who form the community have no defining traits.

You can usually spot sport jocks, goths or ravers just by looking at them. But gamers? hahaha!

I have no explanation for the origin of the misperception of reality that created the "gamer stereotype". It makes no more sense than racism of homophobia. Maybe all of non-gamer society is delusional. ;D

[foster1941]

It's a fundamental, and actually kind of sad, irony that a lot of people who find the idea of D&D/rpgs appealing in theory aren't temperamentally suited to actually being good at playing them and vice versa. Actually playing an rpg is a social activity and doing so well requires good social and verbal skills, things that a lot of would-be gamers simply don't have (and not purely by coincidence -- the idea of taking on an alter-ego and exploring an alternate world that conforms to our dreams and desires and can be precisely modeled and understood through "rules" is understandably appealing to people who are uncomfortable in their real world circumstances). While in the best cases (and we heard a lot of these sorts of testimonials after Gary's passing) playing rpgs helps socially-awkward players to improve their social skills, teaches them self-confidence and effective verbal communication and dispute resolution skills, etc., more often I think the lack of social skills leads to dissatisfying play experiences and frustration, and spending more time thinking about the game than actually playing it.

However, these folks aren't willing to give up on the game just because they've had disappointing experiences playing it (especially since they've likely spent a lot of time and money on it), rather, they'll simply seek new people to play it with, which means hanging out at game stores, going to game-clubs and conventions, and posting and answering "players wanted" ads. Thus, the worst representatives of the hobby become disproportionately its public face.

"Functional" gamers aren't much seen in public -- they only go to game stores to buy stuff rather than hanging out there, and they don't much go to clubs or cons or post or answer want ads because they've got a group of fellow-players that they're satisfied with and don't feel the need to look outside that for additional opportunities to play (with some exceptions, like moving to a new town, which are becoming more common as the player-base ages and exacerbates the perception problem as these functional players go looking for new people to play with, find nothing but dysfunctional cat-piss men, and conclude that those must be the only people still playing rpgs).

[Melan]

There is a kernel of truth in every stereotype, I suppose, but this doesn't stop them from being generally erroneous, insulting and unjust.

First, I never saw any of the "extreme misfits" gamer urban legends horror stories are based on. Shy people, yes, geeks, yes, but never the popular "cat piss man" stereotype.

Second, sure a lot of us were awkward teenagers with horrible high school experiences (I could tell some tales about myself or my peers, and all the f**ked up stuff we went through in the name of All-Holy Liberalism, but that wouldn't be too productive), but we grew up into functional, polite and, dare I say, mostly pleasant adults. It is my suspicion that a lot of the negativity comes from reflections on one's teens... but that is natural: teenagers are not adults yet, precisely because they haven't learned yet how to behave like one, or deal with adult issues like trust, personal distance and decent behaviour. Whoop de doo.

Third, gaming is indeed a social hobby - someone somewhere on the Internet once called them "hospitality games", which is very relevant because modern people don't usually invite other people into their homes, or at least only in highly formal circumstances. Therefore, there is more opportunity for contact, whereas you would never discover the unpleasant habits or human foibles of the guy who changes your oil, sells you your groceries or drives the bus... I sure don't socialise with them by default.

Fourth, a lot of the "creepy gamer" stories are outright fabrications; campfire stories at best and malicious "I am better than you" one-upmanship at worst. I find it particularly distasteful how a bunch of disaffected and bitter gamers (particularly on RPGNet and the "indie" community) have adopted these exagerrated tales as a justification for why they don't enjoy roleplaying anymore. These are usually the types who can't get an actual campaign going, and if they do, they can't make it fun. Afterwards, they b*tch about it on the Internet and make up fake theories about how gaming is inherently dysfunctional unless you find the miracle cure of GNS, or what have you.

[edit]Auto-moderation is not even remotely funny[/edit]

[jjarvis]

There was this one fellow who had a flatulence problem , wore sandals all year long and talked under his breath in a mumble in front of more then 3 people. He lost a job because he stayed in his room for 3 weeks playing everquest. He did end up meeting a woman, moving in with her and getting married so clearly he wasn't totally dysfunctional.

or the guy that told me about all the swords he had buried in his back yard.

or the guy that turned up to the game in costume.

or the DM who lived in his mothers basement, used Mt. dew bottles as a restroom at night and then left them there undisposed of when people came over to game.

of course I'm sure any pass-time where you meet lots of other people and yuo re going to have lots of stories to tell about some of them. I know this one group of hockey fans...

[doc]

A guy turning up to the game in costume? Not a problem.

A guy turning up to the game dressed as Slave Girl Leia? Possibly a problem.

A guy turning up to the game dressed as Slave Girl Leia when the group is not a Star Wars group but an Axis & Allies group?

Yeah, that's gonna be a problem.


Doc

[jjarvis]

doc said:

A guy turning up to the game in costume? Not a problem.

A guy turning up to the game dressed as Slave Girl Leia? Possibly a problem.

A guy turning up to the game dressed as Slave Girl Leia when the group is not a Star Wars group but an Axis & Allies group?

Yeah, that's gonna be a problem.


Doc

I'd have no issue with a costume for the game if the guy showing up in the costume said "hey guys i got a costume i want you to see" or "this costume will be sweet at the CON I want to see what you guys think" (not that i like costumes at CONs when there is no costume ball, costumed LARP or general contest but hey some folks do).

as for slave girl leia costumes-

hee heee, years back the Ex and I walked into a "weekly gathering" at a house of folks that watched anime and did some lite gaming once every two weeks. There were 30 or so people there. One fellow was being fit for a costume that had a bunch of leather straps... I found out the leather had nothing to do with gaming, virtually everyone at the gathering was a couple and after a few moments I realized it was time to go.

[Stonegiant]

jjarvis said:

doc said:

A guy turning up to the game in costume? Not a problem.

A guy turning up to the game dressed as Slave Girl Leia? Possibly a problem.

A guy turning up to the game dressed as Slave Girl Leia when the group is not a Star Wars group but an Axis & Allies group?

Yeah, that's gonna be a problem.


Doc

I'd have no issue with a costume for the game if the guy showing up in the costume said "hey guys i got a costume i want you to see" or "this costume will be sweet at the CON I want to see what you guys think" (not that i like costumes at CONs when there is no costume ball, costumed LARP or general contest but hey some folks do).

as for slave girl leia costumes-

hee heee, years back the Ex and I walked into a "weekly gathering" at a house of folks that watched anime and did some lite gaming once every two weeks. There were 30 or so people there. One fellow was being fit for a costume that had a bunch of leather straps... I found out the leather had nothing to do with gaming, virtually everyone at the gathering was a couple and after a few moments I realized it was time to go.

Can we say People Under the Stairs or the gimp from Pulp Fiction

[Deleted]

jjarvis said:

or the DM who lived in his mothers basement, used Mt. dew bottles as a restroom at night and then left them there undisposed of when people came over to game.

This made me laugh out loud! That's not very hygenic or inviting.

I have played games with people who had really intense personalities. I tend to be open minded about these things.

I don't like playing D&D in public places because I feel silly doing the funny voices as DM, but my friend likes to play ad hoc D&D anywhere. Are we nerds? who cares? Not I.