Magic armor/shields

[oldkat]

Having just recently come into possession of my (physical) little brown books (never could stomach scrolling through the pdfs) I am excited to discover a whole new Old World of thinking; though I always leaned that direction anyway (editions from 1985 on never interested me).

Reading the fine(small!)print is taxing for me. So I tend to miss alot of things.

Anyway, can someone point to the page (or explain) about the use of magic armor and shield combo. In M&T, it states that if the shield bonus is greater than the armor, then 1/3 or the time the blow will be against the shield, and the protective rating of the defender benefits from the additional bonus of the shield.

I read this as being that, armor bonus trumps shield bonus. Am I getting it wrong?

[llenlleawg]

OK, I presume you are looking at the top of page 31, viz., "Armor proper subtracts its bonus from the hit dice of the opponents of its wearer. If the shield's bonus is greater than that of the armor there is a one-third chance that the blow will be caught by the shield, thus giving the additional subtraction." The term "hit dice" tends to be used for different things in the books, but when it doesn't mean the dice you roll to determine hit points it means the roll of the die to determine whether or not you hit, what will later be called, more clearly, "roll to hit". Anyway, note that the original books are not interested in having the armor classes dip below 2, so rather than having the armor/shield bonus reduce one's armor class, they instead reduce the "to hit" roll of one's opponent.

So far, so good.

Now to your main question. The answer, more or less, is that you are getting it right. That is, if you have both magic armor and a magic shield, and the shield has a higher bonus (e.g. chain +1 and shield +3), your armor class is 4 and, when attacked, your opponent will subtract 1 from his roll to hit (from the armor) 2/3 of the time (say, on a roll of 1-4, or 3-6 if you prefer), and he will subtract 3 from his roll to hit 1/3 of the time (say, on a roll of 5-6, or 1-2 if you swing that way). That's not especially confusing.

Note, also, that if the shield's bonus should be less than that of the armor, then there is no effective benefit. That is, one is never disadvantaged for having a shield inferior to one's armor. So, for example, if one were wearing instead chain +3 and carrying a shield +1, your opponent would always subtract 3 from his roll to hit (in this case) armor class 4.

What isn't explicitly clear is what to do when one has only a magical shield and no magical armor. It would seem, however, that the process is no different, namely, that the shield's bonus only "kicks in" 1/3 of the time. So, if you had regular chain and a shield +3, then you would be armor class 4, and your opponents would only subtract 3 from their roll to hit 1/3 of the time. (If it didn't work this way, then it would be *better* to have regular armor when carrying a magical shield, and that's just crazy!)

I hope that helps rather than obscures!

[oldkat]

Thanks. I was reading it in my AD&D mentality of subtracting from AC rather than the opponents To Hit roll. That explains it much better. The question, then, becomes, is there any advantage to having a magic +1, or 2 shield, over a non-magic shield, if your armor is +3? Do Saves consider shield bonuses?

[llenlleawg]

Generally, no, saves don't consider shield bonuses (unless someone else here knows otherwise!). So, in terms of avoiding being hit, in the LBBs there's no special advantage of having a magic shield of a lower value than one's armor over having a non-magical shield. The only difference I can think of is the *shield's* saving throw against fire or lightning "if the wearer is killed or the items are alone" (M&T, p. 38). Magic armor, shields, and weapons save vs. fire and lighting (breath, ball, or bolt) at 14 (+1 items), 12 (+2 items), or 10 (+3 items). Magic items are presumed to be unharmed if the wearer/user is not killed, "for the sake of simplicity" (ibid.).

Note that the *only* items that get saves are: staff of power, staff of wizardry, fire ball wand, lightning bolt wand, fire resistance ring, ring of protection, and magical armor, shields, and weapons. "Those items not listed should be assumed automatically destroyed" (ibid.). This is fair warning for those who choose to take out dragons or other beasts with fire or lightning in the same room as their treasure hoard!

[Deleted]

"This is fair warning for those who choose to take out dragons or other beasts with fire or lightning in the same room as their treasure hoard!"



PLAYERS: "Oh No! Our fireballs melted all the treasure!"
REFEREE: "Your tears of impotent rage are sweet nectar upon Crom's lips, little man!"

[runequester]

In an odd way, I sort of like it. It both helps keep the plus'es from adding up too fast, and it encourages the group to spread things out a bit