od&d and chainmail f

[giantgenesis]

Hi there,

Just to introduce a little bit myself, I’m quite a modern gamer who stated playing old school games recently. Hence, I just found Original Dungeon & Dragon. I have three questions that I want to clarify:

1- Do we absolutely need Chainmail to play od&d
2- If not, do most people played with or without it
3- I started reading od&d, and tried to find how many time a round is (I found that 1 turn = 10 round, but not how many time is a round)

Thank you!!

[Finarvyn]

You don't need Chainmail in order to play OD&D. There are some variations of combat that are based on Chainmail, other variations don't need it at all. There are a few references to Chainmail in other places of the rules, but I don't think any of them are critical. The typical combat system is called "Alternate" in the OD&D rulebook, and it's the one you are most used to playing anyway, as it uses a d20 attack.

I don't worry much about time, so I'd have to look up an answer. When in doubt, default to AD&D. That's the direction OD&D was headed anyway.

[verhaden]

While I certainly don't think there's anything resembling a 'one-true-way' to play OD&D, I think that, at the very least, Philotomy's Musings are worth a read. Sadly, I can't get his website to come up, so here's a PDF from Grey Elf: www.grey-elf.com/philotomy.pdf

You could also check out this pamphlet for OD&D combat with Chainmail: docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=ZGVmYXVsdGRvbWFpbnxncmV5aGFycHNmaWxlc3xneDo3MTgwOTE0M2I3ZWZjODVk

Don't want to make cooper mad

I also quite enjoy deltasdnd.blogspot.com/

Sit back and browse through the pages and pages of discussion on the boards and have fun!

Personally, I've used both 10 second and 1 minute rounds. Like Fin, I'm not sure if, at the end of the day, it really means anything.

[Zenopus]

The most common OD&D interpretation is that 1 turn = 10 min, 1 round = 1 min. This comes from Vol 3, page 8, where it seems to equate 10 min with a two move turn. This is what was used later in AD&D. It assumes a combat round is abstracted, with many exchanges of blows per round with only one chance of a "telling" blow that produces damage.

The other OD&D interpretation is that 1 turn = 1 minute, 1 round = 6 sec (or rounding, 10 sec). Chainmail has 1 minute turns comprised of numerous rounds, giving some support for this.

Holmes interpreted OD&D for the first Basic set and tried to make it all fit with a 10 min standard turn, and combat turns made of ten 10 sec combat rounds. This was continued in B/X (although the "combat turn" was dropped) and later D&D lines.

[Sean Michael Kelly]

Q1. No, but it sure is fun. See the booklets referenced above for help with the context.
Q2. Depends, the Alternative Combat system was used primarily by the authors at that time, it was also the one that took root and became what we know of today. But there were also some mixing of Chainmail for mass combat and other applications. I've used all 3 of the Chainmail combat systems, and the OD&D alternative system at one time or the other. All are fun and could be used for different applications. YMMV
Q3. That's one of those "pick whatever works...and run with it until you want to do something else" things. IMHO. I know that drives some personality types crazy. :-)

[Mushgnome]

I personally feel there is not enough information in OD&D to truly understand the intention/mechanics behind "using Chainmail as the D&D combat system" (and believe me, I've tried) whereas any confusion/ambiguity in the Alternative Combat System (d20 vs. AC like we all know and love) is easily resolved by referencing AD&D.

[giantgenesis]

Thank you for all these answers in a short time!!

Happy to see that od&d still has his fans!

I have another question that just pop into my head.

Is od&d playable by itself? Is it better (I know is somehow subjective, but I mean, what type of players will prefer od&d) than ad&d 1 or other edition (like Bd&d) or some modern retro clone (C&C and basic fantasy rpg)?

Thank

[ravenheart87]

It's playable by itself, although it's not a well organized game. Otherwise it's my favourite edition, I like it better than AD&D or BD&D, thanks to it's simple "core" and huge number of options. It's a bit like a toolbox, I cherry pick whatever I want, and due to the compatibility/easy conversion it's easy to add stuff from older editions and clones too.

[cooper]

Dec 7, 2012 6:33:27 GMT -6 Zenopus said:

The most common OD&D interpretation is that 1 turn = 10 min, 1 round = 1 min. This comes from Vol 3, page 8, where it seems to equate 10 min with a two move turn. This is what was used later in AD&D. It assumes a combat round is abstracted, with many exchanges of blows per round with only one chance of a "telling" blow that produces damage.

The other OD&D interpretation is that 1 turn = 1 minute, 1 round = 6 sec (or rounding, 10 sec). Chainmail has 1 minute turns comprised of numerous rounds.

The only addendum I would add to this is that the 1 minute turn interpretation Applies only to combat and that it is separate from the overland exploration turn (1 day) and dungeon exploration turn (10 minutes/2 moves)

As far as playability, the reformatted/Frazetta 0d&d book is a fully complete and more comprehensive game than any iteration that followed (no single version of d&d included as many rules as the original did--To find rules in core books for air attacks or naval combat for example, one only has 0d&d).

The original original is a nightmare to read.

[thegreyelf]

Honestly my favorite version (my own Spellcraft & Swordplay notwithstanding) is Labyrinth Lord, as it has supplements that make it a near-perfect retro clone of OD&D, and of AD&D, and it's a near-perfect clone of B/X D&D unto itself.

That being said, I've been running a long-term Age of Conan OD&D game using a hack found on my website (linked above) and it's been going spectacularly.

[Deleted]

The most important thing about CHAINMAIL is "Morale due to excess casualties." This is ABSOLUTELY VITAL. It's a simple table, and when I get home I'll post it here.

[Sean Michael Kelly]

Dec 10, 2012 8:22:52 GMT -6 thegreyelf said:

Honestly my favorite version (my own Spellcraft & Swordplay notwithstanding) is Labyrinth Lord, as it has supplements that make it a near-perfect retro clone of OD&D, and of AD&D, and it's a near-perfect clone of B/X D&D unto itself.

That being said, I've been running a long-term Age of Conan OD&D game using a hack found on my website (linked above) and it's been going spectacularly.

I'll echo Jason's comments regarding Labyrinth Lord, if you want something that can bring together OD&D/Basic, Expert/1eAD&D play together in one mechanic... Lab Lord is the bomb-diggity. Jason Vey's Spellcraft and Swordplay does a great job emulating a "Chainmail approach" to OD&D. I really like his presentation. (I ordered the 3 digest-sized volumes off his Lulu.com site.)

For the closest 3LBB/OD&D emulation (alternate combat system exclusively), you should definitely check out Delving Deeper. I know of no other system that gets the spirit and letter of the 3lbb's that close by staying within OGL guidelines. Immersive Ink (waysoftheearth's publishing arm) produces the free 3-booklet PDF's on DriveThruRPG. Brave Halfing Publishing produced a gorgeous "deluxe quality" boxed set of the game in limited quantities. It's my understanding that the pre-orders begin shipping today . A limited stock remains.

[side note]
My gosh, Jason, I wished I was closer to Pittsburgh. I've been running Chainmail/3LBB/Delving Deeper games here in the Harrisburg area. I love and own Spellcraft and Swordplay, but haven't talked my few players into trying a different variant yet. (not that it wouldn't be easy to carry their existing 3LBB/Delving Deeper characters right over.... wait a minute, never mind. I will use Spellcraft and Swordplay, they won't know the difference. :-)

[Sean Michael Kelly]

Dec 10, 2012 10:00:20 GMT -6 @gronanofsimmerya said:

The most important thing about CHAINMAIL is "Morale due to excess casualties." This is ABSOLUTELY VITAL. It's a simple table, and when I get home I'll post it here.

YES! I love this little table. Definitely adds more depth/realism to some of the combat situations we've faced. Thanks for sharing with the rest of the group!

[Deleted]

Here you go, Mike. I did it for you.



Chainmail (Morale) Loss Table

UNIT TYPE	CASUALTY %	SCORE TO REMAIN
Light, peasants, or levies	25%	8 or better
Heavy Foot	33-1/3%	7 or better
Elite Heavy Foot, Armored Foot, Mongols	33-1/3%	6 or better
Medium Horse (not Knights)	33-1/3%	7 or better
Swiss Pikemen	50%	5 or better
Heavy Horse, Norman Knights	50%	6 or better
Mounted Knights	50%	4 or better

[Deleted]

Thanks, Cameron!

To our Original Poster: Orcs are Heavy Foot, Goblins and Kobolds Light foot; Hobbits are Light Foot, Elves and Dwarves are Heavy. Goblins and some Orcs get a -1 to morale in full daylight.

[giantgenesis]

Thank you for all your answers.

I'll take a look at some of your suggestions!

[thegreyelf]

Dec 10, 2012 11:22:30 GMT -6 Sean Michael Kelly said:

[side note]
My gosh, Jason, I wished I was closer to Pittsburgh. I've been running Chainmail/3LBB/Delving Deeper games here in the Harrisburg area. I love and own Spellcraft and Swordplay, but haven't talked my few players into trying a different variant yet. (not that it wouldn't be easy to carry their existing 3LBB/Delving Deeper characters right over.... wait a minute, never mind. I will use Spellcraft and Swordplay, they won't know the difference. :-)

Thanks, man!