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Post by calithena on Apr 20, 2008 18:48:10 GMT -6
What games written in recent years have a sort of 'old school' feel to them?
The three that come soonest to my mind are Encounter Critical, Mazes & Minotaurs, and Forward: to Adventure!, but I want to have an article on these games in the next issue of Fight On!, and I want to make sure to hit all the highlights.
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Post by jdrakeh on Apr 20, 2008 20:23:06 GMT -6
Basic Fantasy RPG and Labyrinth Lord also qualify. Note that, while it's tempting to discount BFRPG as a non-qualifier due to its unified mechanic, if you do so, you also have to disqualify Forward!: To Adventure.
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Post by foster1941 on Apr 20, 2008 20:53:04 GMT -6
Aces & Eights from KenzerCo feels like a time warp to 1979. I wouldn't count either BFRPG or Labyrinth Lord because they're both retro-clone games, which is something of a different category.
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Post by jdrakeh on Apr 20, 2008 22:07:19 GMT -6
Well, I could see LL being a retro clone , but BFRPG is really no more a retro clone than Forward!: To Adventure is.
LL was specifically designed to imitate an existing rule set and was changed only to avoid possible legal action. LL is a clone in every sense of the word, for sure. From concept to finished prodcuct, it exists specifically to copy an earlier edition of D&D as closely as possible without opening the author up to legal action.
BFRPG and Forward!: To Adventure, OTOH, were both designed to honor older games, not duplicate them. While both games borrow heavily from some very specific games of days gone by (i.e., F:TA from T&T, BFRPG from Basic D&D) they are not carbon copy reproductions of them, nor are they intended to be.
I think think the term "retro clone" cannot be applied in good faith to games that merely mimic the past, as opposed to copying it wholesale.
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Post by redpriest on Apr 21, 2008 9:04:10 GMT -6
Every version of Basic Roleplaying is very compatible with every other version written over the years. If early word is correct, so will the new, soon to be released version. Of course, this depends on whether you consider BRP to be old school. I do.
The same could be said for RM2, RMSS/RMFRP and RMC. The differences are rather minor.
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Post by calithena on Apr 21, 2008 12:06:20 GMT -6
I'm more interested in newer games than new editions of older games or retro-clone games, speaking personally. Aces & Eights is a good call, it's a Western but it's also a way of saying 'hey, here's how you could embrace old-school design and take it to the next level in a modern context'.
Of course it's a public thread, you can be interested in whatever you want.
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Post by jdrakeh on Apr 21, 2008 20:44:28 GMT -6
I think your list may be complete with the addition of Aces & Eights, then. Outside of Aces & Eights, BFRPG, F:TA, Encounter Critical, and Monsters & Mazes, I think that all other recent games of an old school vintage are the kind of retro-clone (e.g., OSRIC, LL, GORE, et al) or new editions (e.g., BRP, Rolemaster Classic, etc) that you aren't looking for. That said, HARP may qualify for your list, though it's a few years old now (it builds heavily on Rolemaster 2e while taking a few steps into the new millenium).
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Post by greentongue on Apr 22, 2008 11:11:47 GMT -6
I had originally thought the OP meant Old School Games and not Old School Rules ...
Don't many rules support playing in an OS style even though they are not OS rules?
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Post by calithena on Apr 22, 2008 11:19:47 GMT -6
They can. Savage Worlds is actually a pretty good example of that if I understand you correctly. I'm more interested in games that are the whole old-school package and no more, though.
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Post by doc on Apr 22, 2008 16:58:25 GMT -6
How about Castles & Crusades? I personally dig it and get an old school vibe when I play, but most others that I talk to say it is too slick and streamlined to be Old School.
Doc
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Post by vladtolenkov on Apr 25, 2008 1:40:24 GMT -6
The following is a link to an indie game which is in development called Red Box Hack which is a Story Game/ Old School Hybrid which owes its inspiration to the Moldvay Basic D&D. It really is just a framework right now, but it IS free. redboxhack.blogspot.com/ |
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Post by vladtolenkov on Apr 25, 2008 1:46:29 GMT -6
Or what about the Riddle of Steel? Its in the heavy simulationist vein of Runequest, Pendragon, Rolemaster, Fantasy Trip/GURPS with some Story Game add ons. The combat system looks nasty (which is one of the selling points). www.theriddleofsteel.net/ |
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Post by apeloverage on May 19, 2008 2:50:28 GMT -6
Not really a new game, but there's a revised printing of Tunnels & Trolls in the works.
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Post by Finarvyn on May 19, 2008 7:11:20 GMT -6
Not really a new game, but there's a revised printing of Tunnels & Trolls in the works. I'm not sure how to count this one, as "old school" or not. In general, Tunnels & Trolls is about as OS as it gets. Editions 1-5 (actually through 5.5) all used the same basic rules set, much the way that OD&D, B/X, and AD&D have the same basic rules. However, T&T 7E (and I presume the next version of this) takes the game and changes much of the philsophy (not as much as 3E changed D&D, but quite different indeed). So, I don't know if 7E counts as OS or not.  |
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jrients
Level 6 Magician
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Post by jrients on May 19, 2008 10:04:04 GMT -6
However, T&T 7E (and I presume the next version of this) takes the game and changes much of the philsophy (not as much as 3E changed D&D, but quite different indeed). So, I don't know if 7E counts as OS or not. What's different philosophically between 7E and earlier editions? |
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Post by jcstephens on May 19, 2008 11:30:37 GMT -6
However, T&T 7E (and I presume the next version of this) takes the game and changes much of the philsophy (not as much as 3E changed D&D, but quite different indeed). So, I don't know if 7E counts as OS or not. What's different philosophically between 7E and earlier editions? They've added a skill system. Skill systems imply that any action not part of your 'skill set' is prohibited. In Old School T&T, you were an adventurer, and you knew how to do things. Whatever you could dream up in the way of action, you could attempt with a stat roll against the appropriate attribute. That to me is an integral part of the Old School philosophy. |
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Post by Finarvyn on May 19, 2008 12:01:16 GMT -6
I don't think that having a skill system or not specifically makes a game "old school" or not, but in the case of 7E T&T I think that fact that the game works well for 30 years and then they bring about radical changes such as a skill system is what makes it not-OS to me. Clearly the intent of 7E was to re-design and move away from their OS roots...
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jrients
Level 6 Magician
Posts: 411
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Post by jrients on May 19, 2008 12:14:03 GMT -6
They've added a skill system. Skill systems imply that any action not part of your 'skill set' is prohibited. In Old School T&T, you were an adventurer, and you knew how to do things. Whatever you could dream up in the way of action, you could attempt with a stat roll against the appropriate attribute. That to me is an integral part of the Old School philosophy. How integral is the skill system to the rest of the 7th edition? Could it be ignored? I ask because I've been considering getting T&T. Doc Rotwang! speaks highly of 7th edition, so I had been leaning that way. |
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Post by apeloverage on May 19, 2008 20:14:36 GMT -6
I think that having a skill in a particular area just gives you a bonus to your saving roll, it's not a requirement to attempt the action. As far as I know there isn't an actual list of skills, you just make them up subject to GM approval. I'm pretty sure you could ignore it easily (or conversely, use it with 5th edition rules).
The main complaint about 7th edition seems to be poor editing, not that it's too different to 5th edition.
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Post by apeloverage on May 19, 2008 20:18:14 GMT -6
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Post by dwayanu on May 19, 2008 22:35:36 GMT -6
In exploring an "armor issue," I've learned that there were significant changes across editions that are not highlighted in 5th ed. T&T. I'm not familiar with 7th ed. but, from what I've seen, skill-rules additions to the game tend to take the form of bonuses to the rolls a GM might permit any character. (Select skills in Mercenaries, Spies & Private Eyes are more radical.) I would nominate Barbarians of Lemuria and Zenobia.The latter especially epitomizes the kind of work I like. The alternate-historical setting is to me as refreshing as Tekumel. The (rather "light") rules are not a "port" of anything but designed from the ground up to suit the purpose without extraneous complications. A rehashing of Dungeons & Dragons, Bunnies & Burrows, Metamorphosis Alpha, En Garde or Traveller may be pleasant -- but I'm more excited by a game that gives the same sense of freshness, inspiration and "heart" those gave me the first time! LINKS: Find BOL here or here and Zenobia here. |
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