How does EPT stack up to what you are playing?

[greentongue]

EPT has been around for a long time yet few people are playing it.
I was curious what the game you are playing now (or played last) had over it?
Why some other game and not EPT??

In my case the people I know want a simple "kill things and take their stuff" kind of game. (No matter what they SAY they want to do, it always works out that way.) That should be perfect for classic EPT.
When you reduce the exotic cultural aspects from EPT to make it easier to grasp for new players, they usually would still rather just play a generic "Elves & Dwarves game without the "weird stuff". (funny thing that)

What has been your experience?
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[Deleted]

I played in a weekly game that ended 2 or 3 years ago, refereed by a newcomer to the game. It went very well and I thought he did an excellent job creating the look and feel (so to speak) of EotPT.

[Finarvyn]

Dec 1, 2012 10:55:32 GMT -6 greentongue said:

Why some other game and not EPT??

I first played EPT back in the 1970's with the original boxed set. I love the general mechanics of the game, along with the fact that it's mostly compatible with OD&D plus has some rules variants that are in some ways better. (Or, at least different.)

I don't play EPT much because the setting is so odd and the language is odder. My brain cramps up when I try to remember all of the wacky names and/or pronounce them.

Dec 1, 2012 10:55:32 GMT -6 greentongue said:

When you reduce the exotic cultural aspects from EPT to make it easier to grasp for new players, they usually would still rather just play a generic "Elves & Dwarves game without the "weird stuff". (funny thing that)

My problem really is that I find reduction of the cultural aspects of the setting to be really hard because I don't have a firm grasp on the big picture of Tekumel. If I had a simple resource with a simple timeline, quick gazeteer, and dictionary of common terms it would help a lot. When I read the rules my mind just goes numb because of all of the vocab required to grasp it.

At least, that's my take on it.

[Vile Traveller]

Dec 1, 2012 12:10:03 GMT -6 Finarvyn said:

My problem really is that I find reduction of the cultural aspects of the setting to be really hard because I don't have a firm grasp on the big picture of Tekumel. If I had a simple resource with a simple timeline, quick gazeteer, and dictionary of common terms it would help a lot. When I read the rules my mind just goes numb because of all of the vocab required to grasp it.

I played in a Tekumel campaign for quite some time back in the 90s, but I never really got a grip on the setting. Like you say, a simple "player's Gazetteer" or somesuch would have helped quite a lot. However, these days I do think that the cultural background of the players is not something to be casually dismissed - people subconciously absorb and take for granted a vast store of cultural norms throughout their lives so it's difficult for many people to adapt to really alien settings like Tekumel. Likewise, those cultural "norms" are not universal norms at all, and players with a different background may have very little idea about what's going on when thrown into a typical medieval European fantasy.

[Baron]

I am a big fan of Tekumel. I saw the TSR boxed set in the store, but it was well out of my price range. I had friends who were in another gaming group that played EPT, and they lent me the rules to check out. The EPT rules seemed a little primitive compared to 1st ed AD&D, which was my primary game at the time. I had some trouble following and interpreting them. But I loved the exotic details of the world that I gleaned from reading. Anyway, I gave the book back to my friend. Later I picked up the first novel, Man of Gold, and became even more interested in gaming in Tekumel. When Swords and Glory (the next rules set) came out I broke down and bought it. I found it so complicated as to be basically unplayable. I did like the source material though, and read through that with great enjoyment.

I continued reading the novels, and got rooked into buying Gardisayal (the third rules set) and finally T:EPT (the most recent rules set). All needlessly complex, to my way of thinking, and so much so that my love of the world could not overcome my distaste for the rules.

Somewhere I have a copy of Sandy Peterson's doc on playing Runequest in Tekumel. This has been the version most likely to get me playing. If I ever get through futzing over my own version of Runequest/Basic Role playing rules, I'll try taking it further to a Tekumel-tailored version. But so far, the amount of work has proved too daunting. Wish I could convince someone here in Los Angeles to run something.

From my experience though, I think reading the novels is a very easy entrance to grasping the world of Tekumel. They are good reads, and you pick up the differences between its culture and our own; certainly enough to use for gaming.

[greentongue]

It is a shame "You, too, CAN run Empire of the Petal Throne" was never wrapped up. I think that would go a long way to getting people to re-try the game.
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[Finarvyn]

Dec 1, 2012 21:42:22 GMT -6 Baron said:

I picked up the first novel, Man of Gold, and became even more interested in gaming in Tekumel.
<snip>
I think reading the novels is a very easy entrance to grasping the world of Tekumel. They are good reads, and you pick up the differences between its culture and our own; certainly enough to use for gaming.

I have both Man of Gold and Flamesong. I tried reading MoG a couple of times but could never get "into" it, but I'm not sure if it was the vocab or the font size that turned me off. I keep both books because I have hope that eventually I'll give them another try and like them, since I've heard such positive things about the books.

[rleduc]

I think there is enough in the unfinished "You, too, CAN..." to get anyone going.

The novels really do help in ways that other source material does not.

The main thing in my view is to just jump in and get going. Names are a bit tough, but if you get stuck on an improv character, just give him/her a nickname for that session (fat guard, Benny, whatever), and come back with a name next session. Just keep the action moving.

EPT is what I'm running now, and it seems to be working right out of the box.

[greentongue]

I think using nicknames is very common outside of official functions. I've noticed that with many societies anyway. It also personalizes and helps "color then in" in a game.

If "You, too, CAN..." was finished, it could be pointed to and maybe fire up a larger audience to give it a try.
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[premmy]

I have a strong desire to get away from Ye Standarde Elves & Dwarves, but why should I play EPT of all possibilities? The buy-in requirements are so high that I might as well just create my own fantasy world with less work and effort. And, unlike EPT, that will give me anything I actually want: Dark Ages Britain, Sword & Sorcery Inuit, World of Flying Wizard Towers et al.

I respect EPT for the incredible detail and sheer bulk of the material, but it has never actually appealed to me. I don't have a moral obligation to play Setting X just because it's very detailed / others think it's great / it's historically important / whatever.

[Deleted]

I feel much the same as premmy. I reckon if I was to ever DM EPT I'd be dumbing it down massively both for my sake and because I know my players simply wouldn't be interested in the vast bulk of the setting detail.

[greentongue]

Dec 4, 2012 1:58:56 GMT -6 @austrodavicus said:

I feel much the same as premmy. I reckon if I was to ever DM EPT I'd be dumbing it down massively both for my sake and because I know my players simply wouldn't be interested in the vast bulk of the setting detail.

I think that this is the missed opportunity. A distillation that is accessible and yet like an onion has layers that go ever deeper for those that want to dig.

As it has been presented (IMHO) "It isn't EPT without all the detail."

What is wrong with "funny accents" and "rubber suited aliens" if everyone is having fun? The years of intricate detail are there for those that are looking for more and/or want things to hold together under close inspection.

It is easy to play at an "airplane level" of detail. Mostly human, character "levels" matter, us vs them, GOOD vs EVIL, "things man was not meant to know", "secrets of the ancients", ALIENS! and many other classic troupes.
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[rleduc]

If someone doesn't like the setting, then there is no point in playing the game. That said, if it is only the level of detail that is the problem, you can definitely limit it to what is in the EPT rules as background or less. You can even leave the lands of the five empires behind and set a game in the uncharted southern continent. While it won't bring about Arthurian Britain, there certainly is ample opportunity for flying wizard towers.

[Deleted]

Dec 4, 2012 8:17:05 GMT -6 greentongue said:

What is wrong with "funny accents" and "rubber suited aliens" if everyone is having fun?

This is the key - I know my players and the above would be a turn off rather than fun. Horses for courses and all that.

I reckon a DM would have to be extremely lucky to find a gaming group where all the players were as passionate about the intricate details of a setting as he was. In my experience most players just want to get on with the game.

Having said that, after reading Man of Gold I could easily see myself running an EPT game, but it would be dumbed down to the point of eliciting disgust in purists.

[rleduc]

Don't invite any purists, then. I really think that to grow, EPT has to grow out of or away from the idea that there is a single "right" answer to questions of setting. The whole idea of "canon" is a huge barrier to new referees.

It certainly wasn't Professor Barker's idea, who urged everyone to make the setting their own. The 'canonical' material even has a device to accomplish this - the Tree of Time. Every implementation of Tekumel is just one leaf on the tree, all distinct, some farther from the 'trunk' than others.

That's what's most promising about the article "You, too, CAN....". Get people to start small and not worry so much about the 'canon'. If you want to add it in later, great. But if you've changed things to suit yourself, then great!

As a starting point, consider accepting what's in the original EPT rule book as a start (or not, but it's nice to have a tiny bit of overlap). That's the heart of things. After that, go your own way.

On the other hand, if you just can't live without every single detail the Professor ever set down, then knock yourself out. Just don't expect everyone you game with to feel the same.

[xerxez]

Rleduc offers the perfect advice in my opinion. I think it is very important that the DM have some familiarity with the basics of the setting but only for his or her own ease and comfort in running the game and to give it a flow and some serendipity. The serendipity is for dropping Tekumel Easter eggs for new players when you are unexpectedly given the chance by player actions or side jaunts.

Just keep it simple and the exotic character races, monsters, spell names, and the most striking Tekumelani cultural features will communicate the setting's essence if not it's intricacies-- I think keeping it dungeon based is good for getting D&D players accustomed, and also I think playing up the religious elements creates player interest.

I ran an EPT campaign for a few months and it was great fun but I did find that it is both an acquired and a rare taste--it required something a little more than many players were willing to give--they wanted the default D&D setting, it was easier, familiar.

I had a passion for it and some very good players but it is hard to sustain with people who aren't into it or simply won't try. Better to run a game with a committed DM and two to three players who like the setting than to soft soap it to accommodate a larger group.

I am a big fan of this setting and the Professor. I happened upon Tekumel materials when I was 18 years old stationed in the Navy in Hawaii. I remember buying the game books, reading the setting with fascination, and loving the exotic art. However, having been solely immersed in Basic and Expert D&D and the original AD&D books, I had a hard time breaking away from that way of thinking and I found Barker's setting a little incomprehensible at that time.

I gained a renewed interest in it a few years back and read two of the novels and bought quite a trove of Tekumel gaming materials via the net. Sadly, they sit upon a shelf but I have desired to take up a new game if I could only find the right players....

[premmy]

Dec 4, 2012 9:00:17 GMT -6 rleduc said:

If someone doesn't like the setting, then there is no point in playing the game. That said, if it is only the level of detail that is the problem, you can definitely limit it to what is in the EPT rules as background or less. You can even leave the lands of the five empires behind and set a game in the uncharted southern continent. While it won't bring about Arthurian Britain, there certainly is ample opportunity for flying wizard towers.

Let me play the Devil's advocate: if you run an EPT campaign on another continent with a different culture, different "races", different monsters, flora and fauna...

...what makes it still an EPT game, rather than "just a homebrew D&D setting with some houserules written by another DM"?

[greentongue]

The unified world.
No stars, multiple moons, rare iron, no horses, ultra-tech, dimensional beings, established "other places", etc...

Besides, when you get down to it ANY published setting is "just a homebrew setting with different houserules written by another DM".

What makes this setting different (IMHO) is that it allows "bolting on" a lot of homebrew while still feeling like it belongs, i.e. harder to break.
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[rleduc]

Magic as other planar energy, which is also the power behind the ancient technology (eyes, etc.); the gods may be known or not on this continent, or known in different aspects or amalgamations. Tubecars. The flora and fauna you want to keep.

After all, the the Professor did take his gamers to parts of other continents. There was different stuff there.

[greentongue]

Not that many settings have taken the "Advanced enough Science! is indistinguishable from Magic" to this level. Back in the day, you could pull the best things from your Traveller / Star Frontiers game, your Call of Cthulhu game and your D&D game, fuse them together and have the "Best Game Ever!!"

Maybe it is just nostalgia but I like and miss that. Intricate social structure / conflict was not required for fun.
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