WEG to OD&D Conversion

[Finarvyn]

I don't think I've seen this anywhere. It's not amazing, but is kind of neat. I was looking at the old WEG d6-based Star Wars RPG and thinking about how the stats equate to OD&D.

Recall that OD&D uses stat numbers acquired by dice roll, but WEG Star Wars uses dice rolls that create a new number each time. Turns out that there is a decent connection from dice type to average roll:

3 = 1D
4 = 1D+1
5 = 1D+2
7 = 2D
8 = 2D+1
9 = 2D+2
10 = 3D
11 = 3D+1
12 = 3D+2
14 = 4D
15 = 4D+1
16 = 4D+2
17 = 5D
18 = 5D+1
19 = 5D+2

All I did was assume that each D6 was 3.5 and then add on any numbers, then discard any fractions.

EXAMPLE: 3d6 = 3(3.5) = 10.5 = 10
EXAMPLE: 3d6+2 = 3(3.5)+2 = 12.5 = 12


EDIT: Redid my table in a "10 = 3D" format instead of "3D = 10."

[Finarvyn]

One thing I find fascinating about WEG's D6 system is that it's backwards from most RPGs.

D&D, for example, takes a static statistic and modifies a die roll to aim for a target number such as Armor Class. D6 takes a random statistic (dice+bonus) to aim for a static target number.

Funny, because I'm not a fan of the Masterbook system, but somehow WEG Star Wars seems pretty cool to me.

[barrataria]

Some interesting navel-gazing here!

Oct 1, 2012 13:11:09 GMT -6 Finarvyn said:

All I did was assume that each D6 was 3.5 and then add on any numbers, then discard any fractions.

I'm way out of my depth in dice/math/probability... but for the first few values you used +3, no? Which is of course how many "pips" make up a die, so I'm wondering how you decided on 3.5 instead of 3 for a die factor.

I agree with your other post too, it's pretty slick. Certainly has its problems, especially with force/magic/psionics and so on, but it's fast and intuitive and really fades into the background during the game. Without totally going away like some story game.

[Ynas Midgard]

Oct 3, 2012 8:09:40 GMT -6 barrataria said:

Some interesting navel-gazing here!

Oct 1, 2012 13:11:09 GMT -6 Finarvyn said:

All I did was assume that each D6 was 3.5 and then add on any numbers, then discard any fractions.

I'm way out of my depth in dice/math/probability... but for the first few values you used +3, no? Which is of course how many "pips" make up a die, so I'm wondering how you decided on 3.5 instead of 3 for a die factor.

1D = 3, because 1d6 "equals" 3.5, fractions discarded, we end up with 3
1D+1 is the same but +1, so 4.5, fractions discarded, thus 4
2D is 7, because 3.5+3.5 equals 7

I am puzzled by what you can possibly mean by "+3".

[Finarvyn]

And actually I let my spreadsheet keep all of the decimals until the end.

I think that his "+3" reference means add three for each new D6. The confusion is that it's really +3.5 instead of +3.

[barrataria]

Oct 3, 2012 9:17:27 GMT -6 Ynas Midgard said:

Oct 3, 2012 8:09:40 GMT -6 barrataria said:

Some interesting navel-gazing here!



I'm way out of my depth in dice/math/probability... but for the first few values you used +3, no? Which is of course how many "pips" make up a die, so I'm wondering how you decided on 3.5 instead of 3 for a die factor.

1D = 3, because 1d6 "equals" 3.5, fractions discarded, we end up with 3
1D+1 is the same but +1, so 4.5, fractions discarded, thus 4
2D is 7, because 3.5+3.5 equals 7

I am puzzled by what you can possibly mean by "+3".

In d6, each "D" is worth/composed of 3 "pips". Thus, 3 to me was the first thought of value to assign to the dice.

[DungeonDevil]

2D is the average for a human in WEG's d6 Star Wars. Thus it should be mapped to 10.5 (i.e. 10 or 11). 4D is deemed the human max. An attribute score less than the D&D equivalent of "7" wouldn't register in the d6 system, really.

1D.......7
1D+1.....8
1D+2.....9
2D......10
2D+1....11
2D+2....12
3D......13
3D+1....14
3D+2....15
4D......16
4D+1....17
4D+2....18

p. 31: "You decide your character is about average when it comes to Knowledge, so you put 2D in that attribute."

[aramis]

The 1d is as low as it can get, and should map to 3, not 7.
1d+1 should thus map to 6, and 1d+2 to 9.

[Finarvyn]

Remember that when I put my chart together I wasn't really looking at what "should" be, but what mathematically the dice give. Naturally, 3D would be "average" for OD&D since OD&D characters are rolled using 3d6 typically.

That's why I didn't try to map out something where 2D becomes "average".

I found it interesting, however, that 1D (lowest value in WEG system) does happen to correspond roughly to a 3 (lowest value in OD&D) while Chewbacca's 5D strength (the hightest WEG number I recall seeing in pregen characters) is close to the top of the OD&D conversion as well.

I spent a lot of time thinking about whether to round up halves or to chop them off. Rounding up adds +1 to most (but not all) of the OD&D equivalent numbers so that Chewie would have an 18 strength. Perhaps that would have been a better idea in hindsight.

My chart would look more like this:

OD&D = WEG
4 = 1D
5 = 1D+1
6 = 1D+2
7 = 2D
8 = 2D+1
9 = 2D+2
11 = 3D
12 = 3D+1
13 = 3D+2
14 = 4D
15 = 4D+1
16 = 4D+2
18 = 5D
19 = 5D+1
20 = 5D+2

You could always fill in the gaps with 3 = 1D-1, 10 = 2D+3, and 17 = 4D+3 if you like.

This still doesn't address DungeonDevil's "2D is average" issue, but I'm not as interested in that particular tweak at the moment. I think. Must ponder this...

[barrataria]

Oct 4, 2012 4:03:19 GMT -6 Finarvyn said:

Remember that when I put my chart together I wasn't really looking at what "should" be, but what mathematically the dice give. Naturally, 3D would be "average" for OD&D since OD&D characters are rolled using 3d6 typically.

Yeah, I think I misread what you were doing there.

FWIW, if you didn't know the d6 Space/System later stretched the human range from 1D to 5D. One of many weird things they did that threw numbers off, but I thought I'd mention it.

[premmy]

I think all this equivalency math ignores one major issue: in D&D, attribute values on their own are largely meaningless. (Excepting a few situations, such as rolling below an attribute, etc..) What really matter are the attribute modifiers, and modifiers map to attribute values differently in different editions, so the first question should be: Which modifier distribution should I use when converting D6?

I believe that a reasonably even distribution would be preferable to the sort of strong bell curve you see in AD&D. In other words, low-but-not-extremely-low, medium and high-but-not-extremely-high values should have different modifiers. If you look at how OD&D's Charisma score is paced vis-a-vis Maximum # of Hirelings, something like that looks workable.

Other: in D6 SW, the maximum ability score for a human is 4D, so I really think that should map to an Attribute score of 18, and anything higher should be equivalent to 19+. Also note that while human NPCs (the equivalents of 0 level mooks) are assumed to have ability scores of 2D, it is explicitly stated that PCs are heroes and better than the usual folk, so their average is 3D.

Now, if we assume that 0 level NPCs roll their attributes with 3d6 but heroic PCs with 4d6 drop low or some other method, that would also give us two points which we could 'pin' 2D and 3D to. (Assuming 4d6 drop low, that would make 10-11=2D and 12-14=3D.)

Food for thought.

[Finarvyn]

Conceptually I agree with you, premmy, but remember that the pattern I found was mostly in the form of how WEG average totals correlate closely to OD&D numbers without any tweaks.

If I wanted to stretch things out in order to map "correctly" I could do so, but my main goal was to look at the natural connection that already exists.

[premmy]

Well, it's certainly possible to map the two ranges to each other easily in a way that looks simple and elegant, sure. What I'm really saying is that both games have certain assumption of character competency, and making those match each other is a different task from simply making the numbers match. For instance, a skill of 1D+2 in D6 means that the character cannot possibly succeed at an Easy task without preparation. In contrast, I think an ability score of 6 (the equivalent on your chart) is not supposed to represent that level of ineptness.

As examples from the 1st ed. D6 SW book, an Easy task would be "know more or less how speeder bikes work, but nothing about the advantages or disadvantages of different models" (Knowledge), "someone shouting your name from across the room over the hubbub and music of the cantina at Mos Eisley" (Perception), or "running 1 kilometer, a hard day's work" (Stamina). A D6 character with 1D+2 couldn't possibly succeed at these, but I would argue that a D&D character with a relevant attribute score of 6 would have a very real chance.

[barrataria]

Fin, I was looking at the d6 System book and noticed a conversion table for task numbers, something I had been looking for. Not sure if you'll find it useful, but you might take a peek at some point. It's on page 29. I won't repeat the whole thing here, but it lists success/failure chances based on 3D skill level.

99% success= TN 3
98% success= TN 4
95% success= TN 5

etc.

[blackbarn]

I did something similar to this back in the day, hoping to play "D&D" using the d6 rules. I have always found that the d6 system is really mutable and you can convert almost anything to it pretty easily.