Mayfair Games "Role-Aids" 1982

[xerxez]

I had a sizeable collection of these fantastic books in the 80's.

There were a few less than perfect publications, but most were awesome, chock full of scenarios, monster ecology and cultural treatises.

I stumbled onto "Dark Folk" this past weekend in Half Price Books--got it for a few bucks and it is going to really be an asset to my campaign!

Robert Lynn Asprin contributed the article on Orcish Culture and what a joy it is! Dark Folk contains ecology and religious info on Orcs, Goblins, Kobolds, Gnolls and Trolls.

Each section not only details the race but contains a full length scenario, complete dungeon maps, a city map, NPC's, and magic items. There is a continental map for an entire side campaign. It is profusely illustrated by very good artists--the cover is done by one Janny Wurts and is a gorgeous painting--the interior art has some stuff that looks like Sutherland's stuff, only...dare I say this...maybe better? That would be Gerald O'Malley's lovely pen and ink scribblings and his occasional washed images.

I owned this book as a kid and ran one adventure out of it but now I will be wringing everything out of this book, it will give me a huge break! I have enjoyed reading the scenarios, the type is very pleasant, and the writing is fun to read.

The book is aimed at mid level characters--5th to 8th--and is a bit challenging but as much thinking as hack and slash.

I think I will seek out the others again--I also snagged a near mint condition of "The Lost City of Kiraz", of Harn mythology. A gorgeous dungeon map of an abandoned dwarven citadel inside a mountain--kind of like moria, but a little more manageable!

These items will adapt nicely to nearly any D&D game--they were actually designed for unofficial use with AD&D but I'll be doing D&D with them.

It's also pretty cool to know that Robert Asprin was involved in the hobby, I never knew that though I loved his books!

[kesher]

Nice--I remember those books, but I don't remember if I ever owned any.

Asprin was also involved in the Thieves World multi-game supplement from Chaosium as well, if you're not familiar with that...

[danbuter]

I still have a bunch of them. Mayfair had them on sale really cheap a couple years ago. The Demons sets are pretty much must-haves for anyone who runs 1e or 2e, and likes demons in their games.

[calithena]

In terms of the adventures they put out I thought Lich Lords was probably the best.

[Baron]

I owned and ran several of these back in the day. Don't think I still have any, but would love to get some again. Lots of interesting background.

[smokestackjones]

I'm always on the lookout for Role-Aids material. I just got Undead a while back (one of the best they did on undead and a great companion to their Lich Lords released a year earlier) and I'll be going full-tilt in Basic D&D with it myself. I also have quite a few of their class/race/monster books (Wizards, Elves, Dragons, Giants and yes, Dark Folk) plus a full set of the FEZ series of modules bought off Rob Kuntz.

I still don't understand why there's little to no info or history about this line and it's cotributors (some of which were never heard from again after this). Internet searches turn up practically nothing about them and even their own website has zero - no history or anything (granted, the company has moved out of this segment of gaming but still, you'd think they'd have something about it). I know the Roll for Initiative podcast did cover a few of their products but that's hardly scratching the surface.

In all, an ignoble legacy for a truly unique RPG line. At least the fans remember...

-SJ

[Deleted]

Fans! We have fans!

I remember running Dragons of Weng T'sen and Shipwrecker. I really liked those two. I think I used some others too.

Smokestack, with regards to Nicholson Keefe supplements for Role Aids, we just faded away. In my case I had a son that was born during the writing of Monsters of Myth and Legend II and I didn't have time for writing. Also, shortly afterwards Laurel moved about 40 miles (now thousands) away from me. That was in the days of either no internet or super slow internet and writing together wasn't feasible for me anyway. She was capable of writing on her own. She finished Elven Banner after I quit that project in the early stages. That's why I didn't get on the cover of Undead. Someone at Mayfair didn't seem to know I was working on it with her again. She has written at least two books though I don't know if any have been published. For myself, I loved making up short scenarios, encounters, and monsters etc. but I couldn't do all background work such as talking to Mayfair and pitching ideas which she excelled at. I was a super introvert back then.

Mayfair went out of business and the Role Aids line went to TSR and then WOTC. The Mayfair that exists out of bankruptcy doesn't have anything to do with Role Aids.

Now that I'm retired, Laurel and I might do something together like finishing another book she started 20 years ago. I'm not big into books, I'd rather do D&D but I don't know if I still have the ability. Also I contacted WOTC about the 4 supplements we did and they said they weren't licensing any of the Role Aids products and weren't interested in selling the rights.

Some of that came out in the RFI interview though Laurel and I babbled incoherently at times.

John

[snorri]

Stephen Bourne modules for Role aids (Throne of Evil, Evil ruins, ...) are pretty good, and esality compatible with those he did for TSR (X11, X13, N3), which are gems

[thorswulf]

Wizards an Darkfolk are probably the best stuff I ever read by them.

[Vile Traveller]

Welcome to the OD&D Discussion, moonscourge, and have an Exalt! for your work (past and, hopefully, future).

[Deleted]

Thanks Vile, we'll see what happens. It's been along time and it seems to me that everything may have been done. There are tons of editions, new supplements and game variations. It's mind-boggling but a lot of fun trying to catch up. I feel like a kid in a game store.

[smokestackjones]

Jan 25, 2013 16:35:40 GMT -6 @moonscourge said:

Fans! We have fans!

I remember running Dragons of Weng T'sen and Shipwrecker. I really liked those two. I think I used some others too.

Smokestack, with regards to Nicholson Keefe supplements for Role Aids, we just faded away. In my case I had a son that was born during the writing of Monsters of Myth and Legend II and I didn't have time for writing. Also, shortly afterwards Laurel moved about 40 miles (now thousands) away from me. That was in the days of either no internet or super slow internet and writing together wasn't feasible for me anyway. She was capable of writing on her own. She finished Elven Banner after I quit that project in the early stages. That's why I didn't get on the cover of Undead. Someone at Mayfair didn't seem to know I was working on it with her again. She has written at least two books though I don't know if any have been published. For myself, I loved making up short scenarios, encounters, and monsters etc. but I couldn't do all background work such as talking to Mayfair and pitching ideas which she excelled at. I was a super introvert back then.

Mayfair went out of business and the Role Aids line went to TSR and then WOTC. The Mayfair that exists out of bankruptcy doesn't have anything to do with Role Aids.

Now that I'm retired, Laurel and I might do something together like finishing another book she started 20 years ago. I'm not big into books, I'd rather do D&D but I don't know if I still have the ability. Also I contacted WOTC about the 4 supplements we did and they said they weren't licensing any of the Role Aids products and weren't interested in selling the rights.

Some of that came out in the RFI interview though Laurel and I babbled incoherently at times.

John

Hey John,

Glad to see you here. You worked a bit on Undead? Wow. The caldera Verdaise - renamed Lichrox - made into my campaign world of Skye as where most of the undead come from. That and A Portal To Adventure are my favortie Role-Aids supplements.

I'm glad you popped up. A lot of the old guard in RPGs are getting the recognition they deserve and the folks who created and wrote for Mayfair Role-Aids are due theirs (I wanted to do a few RL-themed segments on my podcasts but was voted down, seeing as they're about Basic and 2E respectively).

-SJ

[Deleted]

It would be interesting to find out about the lost module writers from Role Aids or other companies. An article somewhere on the one hit wonders the RPG world.

Smokestack, I listened to #45 the other day. I don't know which one is you, I assume Glen. Excellent show. I wish there were podcasts back in the old days. I like them a lot more than reading magazines. You get a good mish-mosh of ideas on how to run a game rather than a lecture on if you don't play it this way you're not playing D&D, AD&D etc. from the powers that be.

The show just happened to be one where someone (I apologize to the host for not remembering which one) was talking about converting Tegel Manor to 2nd edition. It made me think, all of these early modules were easily converted to and from basic, expert, 1st, or 2nd editions, (though I don't know about anything after that), so why can't you you talk about them? Maybe because there are different podcasts covering the different eras and the Role Aids supplements just happened to be written in the era of 1st edition?

My limited gaming group never differentiated the editions when running the modules. It was all D&D using rules that worked best for us from all the available materials and rules as well as converted modules from another game system. I only occasionally used TSR, using mainly Judges Guild, Role Aids, High Fantasy, and Companions material. Our other DM used the TSR products. That way we wouldn't buy the same stuff. I found a lot of the TSR material to be never-ending. Probably because we were bad players (I know I was) and got perpetually stuck, not because of the material.

[smokestackjones]

Feb 7, 2013 17:30:19 GMT -6 @moonscourge said:

It would be interesting to find out about the lost module writers from Role Aids or other companies. An article somewhere on the one hit wonders the RPG world.

Smokestack, I listened to #45 the other day. I don't know which one is you, I assume Glen. Excellent show. I wish there were podcasts back in the old days. I like them a lot more than reading magazines. You get a good mish-mosh of ideas on how to run a game rather than a lecture on if you don't play it this way you're not playing D&D, AD&D etc. from the powers that be.

Thanks John. Glad you like the show. Yeah that's me, DM Glen, ringmaster of that 2E 3-ring circus we call THAC0's Hammer. If you're also interested in Basic D&D might I recommend the Save or Die Podcast (saveordie.info), which I am also involved in.

The show just happened to be one where someone (I apologize to the host for not remembering which one) was talking about converting Tegel Manor to 2nd edition. It made me think, all of these early modules were easily converted to and from basic, expert, 1st, or 2nd editions, (though I don't know about anything after that), so why can't you you talk about them? Maybe because there are different podcasts covering the different eras and the Role Aids supplements just happened to be written in the era of 1st edition?

I believe we did one show on using material from other editions and sources for 2E, but that's about all we can do in that regard. I'd love to do more on Role-Aids but that's ground covered by one of our sister podcasts, the Roll For Initiative Podcast and the Powers That Be say no (for now, anyway). d**n shame too because I know how useful those are to either 1E OR 2E.

-SJ

[blackbarn]

There are definitely some good books. I have Lizardmen and one of the monster books, as well as a module or two. A friend of mine pulled out Dark Folk a while back to show me his "find" and I thought that looked really cool and useful.

[Deleted]

I have the Lizardmen book and it's quite good. The Giants one is kind of goofy, especially the Dwarf Giant. Dark Folk and Wizards aren't bad but aren't great, either.

[Deleted]

I haven't seen Giants but the Dwarf Giant may have been requested by Mayfair and not something that the author really wanted in the supplement. Mayfair requested that we include the Death Dragon of the Undead Legion and the War Mammoth in the Undead supplement. I believe this was because they had an agreement with Grenadier Models at the time so maybe they asked for a description of their Giant's Club series Dwarven Giant. I didn't mind writing the descriptions because I thought the mammoth and dragon were cool, and they gave us free minis, but maybe the Giants author thought a Dwarf Giant was silly and didn't have his heart in it. I don't know if the years of the Dwarven Giant mini and the Giants book match so it's just speculation.

[Vile Traveller]

Has anyone read the Witch book? What did you think?

[Zenopus]

Feb 13, 2013 0:10:15 GMT -6 @moonscourge said:

I haven't seen Giants but the Dwarf Giant may have been requested by Mayfair and not something that the author really wanted in the supplement. Mayfair requested that we include the Death Dragon of the Undead Legion and the War Mammoth in the Undead supplement. I believe this was because they had an agreement with Grenadier Models at the time so maybe they asked for a description of their Giant's Club series Dwarven Giant. I didn't mind writing the descriptions because I thought the mammoth and dragon were cool, and they gave us free minis, but maybe the Giants author thought a Dwarf Giant was silly and didn't have his heart in it. I don't know if the years of the Dwarven Giant mini and the Giants book match so it's just speculation.

Interesting! I have a copy of Grenadier's Monster Manuscript from 1986, and it also has a page describing the Undead Legion (of Khomar-Lolth). The author Don Wellman started to detail the world of Neberon in that book and some of the Grenadier Bulletins but never got to describe it in full.

I believe you are RalphPartha on the Acaeum? I remember your introductory post where you mentioned co-authoring several RoleAids supplements. I had a bunch of RoleAids products back in the 80s but unfortunately never Undead or Lich Lords. Probably because of their quality they never turned up in the bargain bin where I got most I had back then.

[aldarron]

Jan 25, 2013 16:35:40 GMT -6 @moonscourge said:

Fans! We have fans!

I remember running Dragons of Weng T'sen and Shipwrecker. I really liked those two. I think I used some others too.

Smokestack, with regards to Nicholson Keefe supplements for Role Aids, we just faded away. In my case I had a son that was born during the writing of Monsters of Myth and Legend II and I didn't have time for writing. Also, shortly afterwards Laurel moved about 40 miles (now thousands) away from me. That was in the days of either no internet or super slow internet and writing together wasn't feasible for me anyway. She was capable of writing on her own. She finished Elven Banner after I quit that project in the early stages. That's why I didn't get on the cover of Undead. Someone at Mayfair didn't seem to know I was working on it with her again. She has written at least two books though I don't know if any have been published. For myself, I loved making up short scenarios, encounters, and monsters etc. but I couldn't do all background work such as talking to Mayfair and pitching ideas which she excelled at. I was a super introvert back then.

Mayfair went out of business and the Role Aids line went to TSR and then WOTC. The Mayfair that exists out of bankruptcy doesn't have anything to do with Role Aids.

Now that I'm retired, Laurel and I might do something together like finishing another book she started 20 years ago. I'm not big into books, I'd rather do D&D but I don't know if I still have the ability. Also I contacted WOTC about the 4 supplements we did and they said they weren't licensing any of the Role Aids products and weren't interested in selling the rights.

Some of that came out in the RFI interview though Laurel and I babbled incoherently at times.

John

First, exalt for your work.
Second, what is an "RFI interview"? Is there a link?
Third, Of course there's room for more material! Write an adventure or setting or whatever you would enjoy writing about. If you need a publisher, there are lots of us around these parts......

[Deleted]

Feb 13, 2013 18:47:20 GMT -6 Zenopus said:

Feb 13, 2013 0:10:15 GMT -6 @moonscourge said:

Interesting! I have a copy of Grenadier's Monster Manuscript from 1986, and it also has a page describing the Undead Legion (of Khomar-Lolth). The author Don Wellman started to detail the world of Neberon in that book and some of the Grenadier Bulletins but never got to describe it in full.

I believe you are RalphPartha on the Acaeum? I remember your introductory post where you mentioned co-authoring several RoleAids supplements. I had a bunch of RoleAids products back in the 80s but unfortunately never Undead or Lich Lords. Probably because of their quality they never turned up in the bargain bin where I got most I had back then.

That's me.

I checked out that Monster Manuscripts booklet. The bonus monster section has a bunch of Masterpiece Editions minis stats and some description. It also had some tactics for undead legions. Our module had tactics that we didn't write and I assumed Cory Glaberson of Mayfair was the writer. They seem different. It came out in 1986 the same year as Undead. I wonder if Wellman was writing something for a Grenadier module that never got finished. They did put out Cloudland for AD&D. Was that written when they had the rights to the official AD&D figures and released after they lost the rights?

There wasn't, to my knowledge, any cross promoting of Undead and the Grenadier figures like there was for DC Heroes and Champions but Undead came out later.

Now it makes me wish I had been in on the meetings with Mayfair that Laurel attended. All I know is that one day she came back with the minis as well as the DC Heroes RPG and some of the official DC Heroes miniatures and said that we needed to write up the war mammoth and death dragon as well as rituals for creating them, and encounters.

Don Wellman's dragon had a black flame breath weapon. I didn't give the death dragon a breath weapon, instead it could shake the ice from its wings as an ice storm spell. The war mammoth was undescribed (just stats) in the Monster Manuscripts booklet but had a recounting of an encounter in one of the bulletins.

[Deleted]

Aldarron, Here's a link to the RFI interview. It's a podcast. They have plenty of different podcasts at OSR. We weren't very exciting and a little scatter-brained but it was fun for us.

I can't believe everything RPG hasn't been done by now. Of course I say that about music too. I've got to motivate myself.
traffic.libsyn.com/rollforinitiative/RFI097.mp3

Also here's a link to the RFI website
rfipodcast.com/show/

and OSR forums
osrgaming.org/forums/

Vile, I haven't seen the Witches supplement. Here's a link to it on Scribd. It got 1 star out of 5 at librarything with one review if that means anything.

www.scribd.com/doc/45899138/Mayfair-Games-Role-Aids-747-Witches