Fighting Men Learning Spells

[Anathemata]

Perhaps this topic has been broached before, but has anyone ever considered allowing Fighting Men to learn spells and eschewing the two spell-casting classes? I have been thinking, what if we allowed Fighters a number of rolls on a starting spell list relevant to their INT mod (or WIS, or CHA) and then permitted them to memorize spells found on scrolls or elsewhere? I know this approach was suggested on the original 'Searchers of the Unknown', but I find myself ruminating on the possibilities for the first time.

[Mushgnome]

At that point you might as well drop the name "Fighting-Men" and just make it a classless game. I have played many classless RPGs and they are a lot of fun. Here is one that's recently tickled my fancy: www.stargazergames.eu/games/warrior-rogue-mage/

Not sure I understand the specific mechanic you are proposing, but I approve of the idea in principle.

[Deleted]

One can certainly produce an enjoyable game that way, but it overlooks what I feel is the strength of FRPG tablep-top gaming.

Playing D&D with class divisions gives everyone a role. The fighter deals damage, the magic-user is the artillery, the cleric is the medic, and the thief is recon/infiltration.

Can all, or most, of these things be combined into a playable character? Sure. Would the game be fun? Of course, look at any number of computer games for confirmation.

But at the table? To my way of thinking it is nice to have a role no other player can fill well. That encourages cooperative play and enhances the fun factor for everyone.

[Anathemata]

Thanks you two for your prompt replies!

The mechanic I proposed was just to roll on some charts for 'starting 1st level spells' or something, and create a system for memorizing spell scrolls. So if a starting character had an INT of 12+, he could have a certain number of starting spells for his spellbook.

I also worried about the possibility of losing specificity in classes, and I wouldn't want to switch to a classless system or anything like that. I had in mind something more along the lines of 'randomized spells' for each player. I don't want them to all have the same spells, but somehow for each to pick up a random assortment of spells as they go along. So one guy might have Magic Missile and Cure Light Wounds, and another would pick up Hold Portal, Detect Invisibility, and Read Languages, and a third might learn Invisibility and Fireball as they go along.

Perhaps each spell scroll would allow one use--either one person learns the spell (consumes the scroll) or casts the spell from the scroll (consumes the scroll). But I think you are right, DuBeers. There is no reason to have 'classes' as such at that point, unless one were to create further specialization.

[Mushgnome]

Hmmm... so if I understand you proposal, all players would be required to play spellcasters, and would have no choice which starting spells they know? Reminds me a bit of the Xanth series by Piers Anthony, interesting narrative possibilities! (But are your players on board with this?)

[Deleted]

I recall LeGuin's "Earthsea" had somewhat widespread magic. That is, many folks had a small degree of magic skill similar to what you describe. Only magi, however, were like the D&D magic-user.

That could work. Many Magic-Users could have contempt for those who "dabble" and you could also work hedge wizards¹ into the campaign. Such would make great antagonists, folk heroes, fly-in-the-ointments, etc.


¹wildlings with lots of potential but no training, who may have abilities an untrained and undisciplined individual shouldn't have.

[Anathemata]

@ Mushgnome: 'Required' is stretching it. If you had a low INT then you can't start with spells, though you could learn later on (with a chance of failure). The spell-casting is optional for everybody. I have not read the Xanth series, but I love it already! And I have not run this by the group yet. Just a brainstorm.

@ Dubeers: Earthsea is a good reference point. Mostly, I like the idea of magic being widespread but sticking to a more 'low fantasy' standard. Instead, it becomes one more tool in the arsenal, rather than the whole arsenal. Randomization forces players to think on their feet and work together to solve problems--'OK gang, who has a spell that will help us out? And how are we going to implement it?' Perhaps Magic Users could exist as antagonists, like how Druids in the old books were originally monsters.

Another idea: we could use rules similar to the Realms of Crawling Chaos for magic books, i.e. players get to make comprehension rolls on magic books to see how many spells they can pull out of it (for a horror element, high-level books have a percent chance to drive you insane or otherwise harm you).

[Deleted]

I think some other game would be better for this than D&D. D&D was pretty much built after Conan, where wizards are wizards and warriors are warriors.