Rules for a "Classic Blackmoor" campaign

[Finarvyn]

Falconer hijacked another thread and I thought it was worthy of its own spot in our little Blackmoor space.

falconer said:

Dear The Great Svenny,

I’ve always been curious about something. If you were running a “classic Blackmoor” game, what published books (if any) would you use? Is First Fantasy Campaign + Chainmail a complete game, or do you also need the Original Dungeons & Dragons set? I imagine you also have house rules that have not been published. Thanks.

gsvenson said:

I used the set of rules in my little brown box, plus FFC. I never really setup a massed battle where I might have wanted to use Chanimail.

[Falconer]

gsvenson said:

I used the set of rules in my little brown box, plus FFC. I never really setup a massed battle where I might have wanted to use Chainmail.

Very helpful. Thanks for the reply!

[Falconer]

I guess that means you used the “Alternate Combat” rules given in OD&D?

[gsvenson]

Yes, I used the alternate combat system. I had to dig out the books to make sure I knew what I was saying, since I have not played OD&D since '91 or so. I stopped playing D&D altogether in the 90's. When Dave moved down to Orlando and I started playing with his group, he was play testing the new 3.0 Ed rules.

I didn't use any "house rules" after 1977 or so, because one of my players was a "rules lawyer". I can still here him now "Point of order! It says on page 17 of the Greyhawk suppliment that..."

[dwayanu]

That "Point of order!" cry can get tiresome indeed. As an example of the extremes to which a DM may be pressed, herewith is the Wandering Monsters table for my latest Dungeon Level One:

1: Goblins (2-10) taking pot-shots, gibbering and slinking
2: Grues (1-6) bringing down the dark and rending
3: Orcs (2-8) dripping, clicking and squealing to attack
4: Scrags (7-17) swarming, throttling, biting amid infantile squalls
5: Vulches (1-5) doing pretty much what canny PCs would do
6: Snarks (1-3) circling and butting, many-fanged jaws slavering
7: Sliths (1-6) slipping and worrying like weasels
8: Gnoles (1-4) dragging down and smothering the unwary
9: Mangler (1) tearing victims limb from limb
10: Gargs (1-2) barging and slashing
11: Sluggoths (1-2) biting with pseudopods and crushing with bulk
12: Ogre (1) grabbing and snacking

[leon]

Heh...Old thread resurrection, but I was wondering: If I used Dragons at Dawn as a basis for the rules for a "classic Blackmoor" campaign, what else would fit? Obviously the FFC, but also the 3 LBBs? Everything from them, or just certain parts (for example some spells or monsters or whatnot should be left out)? What about the Blackmoor supplement?

[aldarron]

Sept 1, 2011 13:37:42 GMT -6 leon said:

Heh...Old thread resurrection, but I was wondering: If I used Dragons at Dawn as a basis for the rules for a "classic Blackmoor" campaign, what else would fit? Obviously the FFC, but also the 3 LBBs? Everything from them, or just certain parts (for example some spells or monsters or whatnot should be left out)? What about the Blackmoor supplement?

<blink> That's a question with a lot of answer potential. But its too late at night to start a novel, so I will just give some brief off the cuff ideas .

Add nothing from Greyhawk. Nothing.

Add all the monsters from Blackmoor Supplement II up to, but not after Portugese Man o War.
The Diseases

All the monsters in the 3LBB's made an appearance in Blackmoor at some point.
Cleric turning undead table - I didn't think I could legally replicate that for D@D so I gave a different method, but the D&D turning table is Arnesons for sure.
Loyalty score
all the random monster and treasure tables.
All the potions (or at least the ones you like)
displacer cloak and a few of the cooler magic items.

[leon]

Thank you aldarron, that was extremely helpful.

Edit: What about the magic-user and cleric spells from the 3LBBs? I guess some Cleric spells could work as miracles. Would that be too far off the mark?

While we are at it, I read in your interview that it came to your possession a draft of Arneson's D&D rules, but you said that "But that story will have to wait till all parties concerned are agreeable to more being said."

I hope we learn more about it in the future. Can this document in the future, if all involved parties agree of course, become available to the public? Or are there any legal ramifications which would prevent it from becoming available?

[aldarron]

Sept 2, 2011 4:28:36 GMT -6 leon said:

Thank you aldarron, that was extremely helpful.

Welcome. Thought of something else this morning. Adventures in Fantasy. The .pdf is floating around if you don't have it. From AiF you can use any of the monsters, but especially elves and dwarves, and above all Dragons.

Also the ageing table.

Sept 2, 2011 4:28:36 GMT -6 leon said:

What about the magic-user and cleric spells from the 3LBBs? I guess some Cleric spells could work as miracles. Would that be too far off the mark?

You can definetly use the traditional cleric or swap any of the miracles you like. I didn't do "cleric spells" in D@D because it was really unclear what spells came when and that when the cleric idea first came around, he only had a few of them - more like the ept priests. But, of course, over time the clerics spell list grew. See my supplement I for more ideas here.

Sept 2, 2011 4:28:36 GMT -6 leon said:

While we are at it, I read in your interview that it came to your possession a draft of Arneson's D&D rules, but you said that "But that story will have to wait till all parties concerned are agreeable to more being said."

I hope we learn more about it in the future. Can this document in the future, if all involved parties agree of course, become available to the public? Or are there any legal ramifications which would prevent it from becoming available?

There could very well be legal issues. Technically, drafts are generally considered to be the property of the copyright holder. Nevertheless, I'm sure it will see the light of day, so to speak, at some point. I've been working on an article about it that will likely show up in a fan zine at some point in the not tooo distant future too.

[leon]

Sept 1, 2011 20:27:05 GMT -6 aldarron said:

Add all the monsters from Blackmoor Supplement II up to, but not after Portugese Man o War.

Why not the weed eel? In this thread you wrote, the cutoff point seems to be the weed eel. Has some new information come to light?

[aldarron]

Sept 2, 2011 12:58:55 GMT -6 leon said:

Sept 1, 2011 20:27:05 GMT -6 aldarron said:

Add all the monsters from Blackmoor Supplement II up to, but not after Portugese Man o War.

Why not the weed eel? In this thread you wrote, the cutoff point seems to be the weed eel. Has some new information come to light?

The weed eels are cool huh. It gets muddy who did what after dinosaurs, but the "new information" is that aquatic elves are from Marsh. I mentioned PMOW as a convenient stopping point and as a "giant" creature they lean in Arnesons direction, but if you want to be completely sure, stop at dinosaurs.

[leon]

I see, thanks. It doesn't really matter since the animals (or even their giant versions) don't really set the tone of the campaign. If, for example, I wanted D&D stats for a tiger or an elephant, I'd get them from whatever book they would be available. Since I know that there were giant sized animals and dinosaurs in Blackmoor, I will probably be using more than the ones appearing in Supplement II. For example, I read that Blackmoor players had an encounter with a T-Rex, yet it's not listed in the supplement.

It's the fantastic creatures which are the "problem". Aquatic Elves don't "exist" in Blackmoor, so they are out.