Carcosan HD in 0e

[Anathemata]

Hello all,

I wanted to lessen the necessity of healing magic in my game, as well as drive home the point about HD as an abstract qualifier of combat 'fortitude' rather than actual blood-and-guts 'violence you can take'. A recent idea I had came from Carcosa--roll HD before every combat.

The full plan goes like this: double your CON mod and add your level--this represents your 'Body Points' or actual health. Then, before every combat (or possibly in order of initiative) you roll your HD and add that to the pool. In case of surprise, the surprised party is denied HD and only gets BP--heightening the danger. Poison, likewise, affects BP and not HD. So that weak little poison might not be affecting your performance too much, but it hits you where it really hurts.

I haven't tried this out yet, but I thought it was a pretty cool idea. Thoughts?

[Deleted]

My first thought? Hit point modifiers due to constitution are either +1 or -1 in OD&D. Doubling one or the other merely grants +2 or -2 to hit points. A first level character with a -2 CON modifier (using your system) had best hang up his sword and take up farming.

OD&D is pretty deadly at lower levels and I'm not convinced the sense of danger needs to be heightened for players. Be assured, the first few times they go up against a goblin with their 3 hit point fighter they will be plenty afraid.

Carcosa hit dice do a reasonable job of balancing the physical versus mental aspect of hp/HD. Players can absorb damage up to a point and recover quickly after combat. Losing dice as opposed to hit points, however, has a longer lasting effect. Just out of curiosity, is there any particular reason you don't want to use that rule as written?

[Mushgnome]

Sounds fun to me (in a gonzo sort of way), it gives different players a chance in the spotlight... maybe the magic user rolls d12's and the fighter rolls d4, you have a nifty role-reversal where the MU is the "meatshield" trying to keep the fighter alive!

Not crazy about your "no hit dice if you're surprised" house rule though. My suggestion is to add the Thief class (with backstab ability) to your game if you want to emphasize that "ambushes are very dangerous."

Also I have never believed philosophically that hit points need to represent the same resource to all characters. I agree it strains belief to think that a mage with 30 hit points can physically survive a half-dozen axe chops (there must be some other luck/fortitude/dodging/skill/tactics/experience mechanism at work) but I have no problem with a dwarf fighter getting beaten to a pulp and living to tell about it.

[Anathemata]

Hmm, I suppose I left out that a 'minimum 1 BP' would be in use here, so that characters with low CON didn't have to worry too much.

Also, if we were using straight OD&D (or at least the HP rules) all characters would roll d6's (and in Swords & Wizardry, they would roll d6-1, d6+2, etc.). I know full well how dangerous lower levels are in OD&D, and this system actually makes it somewhat less so. A first-level Magic-User gains a minimum of 2 HP every combat, for instance. In a surprise round, players would roll HD when their turn in the initiative order comes up.

The main reason that I don't want to use RAW is because I don't much care for dependence on the Cleric--I kinda want to replace him with something like a general Magic-User class. Besides, this way, the Cleric is a valuable in-combat medic, but isn't really as necessary out of combat. You could, in fact, interpret his healing powers as a 'spiritual boost' of some kind.

@ Mushgnome: I fully agree! I love the idea that the Thief is running and dodging blows while the Fighter just takes punches to the face like Mr. T!

[Deleted]

Actually, I meant the Carcosa dice convention rules as written. I think I have a pretty good handle on the rest of your post.

[Anathemata]

Ah yes. Sorry about that.

I suppose because I still like the notion that HD are tied to the class. That way, Fighters are still likely to come out ahead of M-U's. It's the extra bit of uncertainty that I like. The fact that players can't 'calculate' quite as easily going into battle makes battle less desirable, and alters the flow of combat to make things a bit more random.

Thus, a Fighter still wants to go in ahead of the others, but maybe he lacks the 'spark' that he had in the last combat, and has to fall back sooner this time.

Did I answer your question? Or am I just boring you at this point?

[Deleted]

You answered my question very well and you are not boring me at all. In fact, have an "exalt" for adding your idea into the discussion here at ODD74.

[Necropraxis]

Does this mean that all HD are reset for every combat and only body point damage is persistent?

Another option would be to remove the cleric healing spells and perhaps make healing potions more affordable. That might be less of a hurdle for players to jump over in terms of understanding the rules.

I do really like the idea of re-rolling hit dice and how it emphasizes the abstract nature of HP though. I am currently planning on having hit dice rerolled per adventure as a simplification for healing. Empire of the Petal Throne did this first, I think; one of these days I will get around to reading it.

[Anathemata]

Yep. You re-roll HD before every combat. The major issue to me right now is how to handle traps and such, but that is the essence of it. I read your blog post on re-rolling HD every adventure; that might be a healthy compromise between my idea and the RAW. EPT is one of the great old-school games and I heartily appreciate anyone drawing from it.

Body Damage would heal at a rate of 1 or maybe 1d4 per full day of rest like HP used to (as I recall from the books somewhere). You could even create a chart to represent scars and other lingering effects of BP damage. Perhaps a system to limit HP based off of damaged BP, but now I start getting too complicated.

[Red Baron]

traps deal hit die damage. a trap might make you go from rolling 6 hit dice to 4 before a combat.