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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2011 11:59:33 GMT -6
Not trying to troll, but trying to voice an overall disappointment with the way Metamorphosis Alpha is evolving. Here's my take on the state of the game.
Edition I (TSR, 1976)
A neat little game. I wish I'd found it when it first came out. This game got support in DRAGON magazine, has been relased in PDF, has a couple of adventures you can buy for it, clearly is the best of the editions.
Edition II (TSR, written for Amazing Engine)
A bad move, as MA didn't save a sinking game system and Amazing Engine didn't revitalize an interest in MA. A dead product.
Editions III and IV (Fast Forward and Mudpuppy Games)
A smart move, and one which allowed me to discover MA when I found a copy of Jim Ward's Edition III book in a game store. Edition IV is essentially a re-do with tons more material. This was looking like MA Reborn until Fast Forward Entertainment had a collapse.
Edition V (Signal Fire)
A bad move for several reasons.
1. Its based on D&D 4E and not compatible with Edition I.
2. D&D 4E has already become replaced by "Essentials" so it's not even published and is already obsolete.
3. Alot of the OSR people who liked the 1976 edition probably will not like the new one.
4. D&D 4E already has WOTC's Gamma World game, which may cater to the same audience which might have bought this new version of MA.
5. This game was announced in 2009 and still is not out yet. As far as I have been able to tell by looking at Google they haven't even set a release date. They aren't even making a new game system, so why 2-3 years to get this out?
My solution:
1. Go out and buy Edition I, either in PDF or from e-bay. (PDF is better since Mr. Ward actually gets money from the sale.)
2. Talk up Edition I. Do it here, do it on other OSR type boards. Make people ask about the game, tell them about the game. Point to these boards (and Fin's posts about the game).
3. Play Editon I at a game store or a convention. Let people see you play and maybe they will want to play it too.
Don't wait for an edition that we might not like and that might not ever get finished. My opinion, lets hear yours!
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Post by Finarvyn on Nov 25, 2011 15:36:29 GMT -6
Well, overall I think that Jim and Craig are doing a decent job keeping the name Metamorphosis Alpha out there. I'd like to see more product relased, but I also don't want shoddy stuff thrown out there just to say something is being published, either. Both Jim and Craig have had health issues recently and that tends to slow things down. WardCo isn't a big company.
I don't know anything about the new edition or whether it will thrive or not, but the old time 1E goodness is still out there and I can play my MA with or without new rules and editions. I agree with your statement about spreading the word about 1E. It's my favorite and has been a great game system for 35 years or so. It would be nice for more folks to hear about it and play it.
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Post by perdustin on Nov 25, 2011 20:38:38 GMT -6
I'm all for the game, at least in its 1E form; my blog is a testament to that. Unfortunately, I don't see much hope with regard to long-term sustainability. Anyone visiting these boards will likely have some appreciation for MA1E, but I don't believe the larger RPG community will embrace an antique. I'm not sure what, if anything, can improve this situation. Either promoting 1E long-term or creating a new system more palatable to modern audiences requires support that, sadly, WardCo is not prepared to maintain. I'm certainly not casting blame on Jim or Craig, but the situation is not promising.
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Post by foxroe on Nov 25, 2011 21:54:35 GMT -6
It's surviving! I was someone that missed when it was initially published, but I payed its spin-off, 1ed GW, extensively in my youth. I recently rediscovered MA and I have to say that it is a brilliant RPG. It's a game that I would definitely rope a group of players in to doing in the future.  |
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Post by greentongue on Nov 26, 2011 9:19:39 GMT -6
I believe that releasing it as a "rules free" setting would help a lot. The setting is timeless and still valid and viable. In my opinion the only thing holding it back is the unknown rule system. Converting to a current system just restarts the cycle, as every rule system seems to age and fall out of favor. (Leaving the original rules as a default and making a complete package.)
If the setting had been expanded with a myriad "add on" variations off the basic theme, I believe it would still be "current". The concept has a solid basis for fun gaming.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2011 15:21:35 GMT -6
Seems like nobody talks about the game anymore and there isn't enough support. There is some talk here on OD&D, but the threads are few and far between. There aren't many new items for sale. (Craig did a HOUSE ON THE HILL module and there are rumors of GEOMORPHS that are supposed to be done "soon." Where are the T-Shirts or special MA dice or whatever?)
I think it's dying.
I think that James Ward needs to put together modules of his old notes and campaigns. I'd love to see the original Warden. I'd love to see adventures that I've heard about (Asteroid and Bonnie Browne). There must be some good stuff waiting to be published, since Ward has been GM-ing MA for 35 years!
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Post by grodog on Dec 1, 2011 17:31:06 GMT -6
Jim has consistently been running MA games at old-school cons like GaryCon and North TX RPG Con, so I think the game's treading water rather than slowly drowning. Jim's certainly had plenty of health issues to contend with, too, which I'm sure impact his ability to support the game in the way that he'd like to.
Regardless, I'll be happy to support the game in whatever ways I can!---it's a wonderful game and setting, and Jim is certainly one of the finest game masters I've ever played under.
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Post by Finarvyn on Dec 2, 2011 17:26:14 GMT -6
I'll be happy to support the game in whatever ways I can!---it's a wonderful game and setting, and Jim is certainly one of the finest game masters I've ever played under. +1 to this! I'm interested in any way to spread the word about MA!  |
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Post by Craig J. Brain on Jan 26, 2012 2:03:20 GMT -6
I'm all for the game, at least in its 1E form; my blog is a testament to that. Unfortunately, I don't see much hope with regard to long-term sustainability. Anyone visiting these boards will likely have some appreciation for MA1E, but I don't believe the larger RPG community will embrace an antique. I'm not sure what, if anything, can improve this situation. Either promoting 1E long-term or creating a new system more palatable to modern audiences requires support that, sadly, WardCo is not prepared to maintain. I'm certainly not casting blame on Jim or Craig, but the situation is not promising. It always amazes me when I read posts that declare MA "dead". I remember back in 2005-6 representatives of one publisher made quite an effort to convince us the game was dead, so they could publish their own version. We're still here and they are not. I must disagree with this post on a number of points: Long-term sustainability - There are very few RPGs that have been around as long as MA, and even fewer still that still have their original author involved. In 2010, we released an adventure for the game, which I think shows at least some intent of supporting previous editions. MAJOR was an attempt to support the 4th edition, and to a degree 3rd edition as well, as was the release of the referee screen. The project to create the Astounding System, to allow us to support 2nd edition ground to a halt due to work commitments and health issues on my part, but isn't forgotten. WardCo. is committed to supporting the game, for the long term - we have even chosen a designer with impeccable credentials to take the game into the next edition, working closely with Jim Ward. Despite being published by several different publishers, the game goes on. If MA hasn't already proven itself to be "sustainable" through the ongoing support of it's original author, then I doubt that any game will ever meet the standard that you are setting. If the reaction to the POD is anything to go by, then the community seems to be welcoming the game with open arms, despite it being an "antique". It's early days yet, and I am sure that a concerted effort of a few determined detractors could easily nobble it. I started my original fan site back in 1998, with Bigpond, when I was living on Thursday Island. I started looking into MA3e some months prior to publication and by the time it had been released had a few short amateur adventures on the net - this was back in 2002. I finally launched MetamorphosisAlpha.net back in 2005 and tried supporting all versions of the game since. I also helped with MA4e and coordinated getting MA1e back into publication via RPGNow. In the meanwhile... Jim Ward has run the game continually at Cons and at home and at friends places, spoken to people about the game, given interviews and answered countless letters and emails and just "been around" answering questions since 1976. In 2005-6 we even negotiated movie rights for a MA movie, and Jim did up a terrific script which didn't eventuate (thankfully in hindsight!). The Metamorphosis Alpha graphic novel is in the works and is public knowledge. Jamie Chambers, one of the guys behind Cortex, the BSG and Serenity RPGs is committed to bringing MA5e to a table near you in the "near" future. Even prior to the reprint being available, and the expanded store, I have no idea why you would say that we were not promoting 1E long-term or creating a new system more palatable to modern audiences. Craig J. Brain WardCo. |
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Post by Craig J. Brain on Jan 26, 2012 2:17:57 GMT -6
Seems like nobody talks about the game anymore and there isn't enough support. There is some talk here on OD&D, but the threads are few and far between. There aren't many new items for sale. (Craig did a HOUSE ON THE HILL module and there are rumors of GEOMORPHS that are supposed to be done "soon." Where are the T-Shirts or special MA dice or whatever?) I think it's dying. I think that James Ward needs to put together modules of his old notes and campaigns. I'd love to see the original Warden. I'd love to see adventures that I've heard about (Asteroid and Bonnie Browne). There must be some good stuff waiting to be published, since Ward has been GM-ing MA for 35 years! I don't know if you've seen the new things we have added since the start of January - I suspect many haven't, but we have a WardCo. store at CafePress with a heap of things for sale. Many of which have been specifically asked for by fans who would "buy one for sure!". The sales of the t-shirts have been a real eye-opener. Perhaps they will pick up closer to GaryCon, but for the effort to create them, vs the volume of sales - I don't think I'll be driving a luxury car anytime soon I have been toying with the idea of KickStarting Bonnie Brown to finish the layout and artwork, which is all that is left to do on that project. However all of my other projects are on the backburner until the hardcover edition of MA1e is completed. Craig J. Brain WardCo. |
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Post by Craig J. Brain on Jan 26, 2012 2:43:02 GMT -6
Not trying to troll, but trying to voice an overall disappointment with the way Metamorphosis Alpha is evolving. Here's my take on the state of the game. I am sorry to hear that you are disappointed, and also appreciate your assessment of the previous editions of the game. Hopefully the recent announcement of the change in direction with MA5e will remedy that. My solution: 1. Go out and buy Edition I, either in PDF or from e-bay. (PDF is better since Mr. Ward actually gets money from the sale.) 2. Talk up Edition I. Do it here, do it on other OSR type boards. Make people ask about the game, tell them about the game. Point to these boards (and Fin's posts about the game). 3. Play Editon I at a game store or a convention. Let people see you play and maybe they will want to play it too. Don't wait for an edition that we might not like and that might not ever get finished. My opinion, lets hear yours! Here's a very good spot for talking about the game. We have our own boards too, but for some reason people are reluctant to join to get access, even though it is free. The most common reason for this I am told is the effort required to log in. Me personally, I like having spam-free access to a resource dedicated to MA, and a direct line to it's creator. As I mentioned in some of the responses to posts above, we have released a Lulu version, and every cent of profit from that goes to Jim Ward  I've seen a lot of good feedback from satisfied customers already, but one which has amused me is three people claiming to be disappointed that the Lulu edition doesn't have the hex sheet at the back of the book. I know one was joking, but a couple were serious, with one even claiming that his original version had it.  Some people are just determined to not be satisfied. I gather at least one person has received a copy where Lulu has given them one with a poorly-trimmed cover and glossy pages. The copies I have seen have good covers and regular paper. However, 99% of people sound pretty happy so far. Lulu is pretty good at resolving quality issues with misprints, so I am confident that anything like this is easily resolved. Jamie Chambers is the guy that's looking after MA5e, and now that he's announced that serious work on MA5e has commenced, I'm sure that you'll see more in future. But you'll need to check the SignalFire Studios site, or our forums. Craig J. Brain WardCo. |
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Post by Craig J. Brain on Jan 26, 2012 2:51:37 GMT -6
I believe that releasing it as a "rules free" setting would help a lot. On the surface, this sounds fine, but then we will always field complaints that the setting doesn't quite fit with a set of rules, and that support is lacking for another rules set. I did look at this as an option for re-releasing MA2e, but a bit of research shows that systemless settings don't sell that well anyway. Anecdotal evidence from a couple of friends suggests that the best ideas get extracted and put into another company's product and the author and publisher loses out yet again. I guess defending systemless IP is harder. Like the t-shirts, despite apparent enthusiasm for a product, I don't think we'll see the sales to support the idea. Craig J. Brain WardCo. |
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Post by Craig J. Brain on Jan 26, 2012 3:31:02 GMT -6
Well, overall I think that Jim and Craig are doing a decent job keeping the name Metamorphosis Alpha out there. I'd like to see more product relased, but I also don't want shoddy stuff thrown out there just to say something is being published, either. Both Jim and Craig have had health issues recently and that tends to slow things down. WardCo isn't a big company. I don't know anything about the new edition or whether it will thrive or not, but the old time 1E goodness is still out there and I can play my MA with or without new rules and editions. I agree with your statement about spreading the word about 1E. It's my favorite and has been a great game system for 35 years or so. It would be nice for more folks to hear about it and play it. Marv, Once again, thanks for the support. MA is an old game, often overshadowed by it's better-known sibling Gamma World. We have had a number of opportunities to release products that were less than what we considered ideal, including a d20 release in 2005-6 and a movie form a company that at best could be described as "dodgy". I hope that we can continue to release products, even if the timetable is a tad slow and more flexible than a "really flexible thingy", that will show that it is quality that we are aiming for, and not just quick bucks. I am very hopeful that Jim will be able to release further product via Eldritch Enterprises to support MA as well Craig J. Brain WardCo. |
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Post by Finarvyn on Jan 26, 2012 15:52:01 GMT -6
Marv, Once again, thanks for the support. MA is an old game, often overshadowed by it's better-known sibling Gamma World. I wouldn't support it if the game wasn't just so darned cool. I find GW to be an okay game, but it seems to be so much more "gonzo" than MA for some reason. With MA I can be serious or crazy, but with GW folks seem to expect crazy. I'm so glad that 1st edition MA is making a comeback and proud to have had a small role in the process. Now I just have to remember to buy a copy from Lulu so I don't have to use my old '76 rulebooks any more. |
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Post by Craig J. Brain on Jan 26, 2012 21:34:39 GMT -6
Marv,
Thanks. Interesting to see that since I responded we've had an extra vote in favour of "MA is slowly dying".
I guess I'll chalk that up to wishful thinking on somebody's part rather than anything based upon fact.
Craig J. Brain
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Post by perdustin on Jan 27, 2012 23:47:56 GMT -6
Craig, Let me explain where I'm coming from. After quoting my post, you said: I didn't declare MA "dead." I said that the situation is not promising. That's not something I want, but it's what I perceive. I'm not saying these things out of cruelty; I'm saying them because I'm concerned. Your perception is different of course. You are aware of things I am not aware of. Try to see the picture from my perspective. In another post, you said: Last October, I applied for an account at www.metamorphosisalpha.net. I received an e-mail that said, "Your account is currently inactive, the administrator of the board will need to activate it before you can log in. You will receive another e-mail when this has occurred." I never received that other e-mail. That's why I perceive a lack of support. I haven't visited the boards since then. If no one is going to take the trouble to activate my account, why should I? It's like I'm not wanted. You also said: You're talking about the past, I'm talking about the future. Just because something has been around a long time doesn't "prove" that it will continue to be sustained by momentum. Look at Kodak; being around for more than a century hasn't saved it from bankruptcy. I'm not setting a "standard" of sustainability but when I wrote that post last year, I was not hopeful. You are now responding two months later and things seem to be looking better. I'm glad the POD is selling well. I want it to sell well. I linked to Lulu from my blog. For me, 'antique' is not a bad thing but I fear that it may be for younger gamers. Instead of saying "the larger RPG community," perhaps I should have said "the younger RPG community." I suspect that many of the POD purchasers have been older gamers already familiar with the game. To us, antique means classic. To younger gamers, something as old as MA may seem dated and unpromising. Finally, you stated: I've already given one reason having to do with the lack of response from the boards. Let me address some more... Is there a Facebook page for MA? Is there a blog dedicated to WardCo properties and events? You say Jamie Chambers is bringing MA5e to us in the "near" future? That's great. Is there a designers diary we can check out? Is there a way people can sign up to be playtesters? Is there a place we can see 'teasers' of the art? You say there's a store at CafePress with a heap of things for sale? That's news to me, but I'm glad to hear it. Tell people about it. And don't forget to provide a link. Forgive me for being obvious, but to promote something means to draw attention to it. Try and start a meme. Try and maintain a front page presence on RPGGeek. Have contests. Have people submit amateur material. The prizes can be modest, a t-shirt or a copy of the book with a personalized autograph from Jim. People complaining (jokingly or otherwise) about the lack of a hex sheet? Take advantage of that and provide free downloads of 'Official' MA hex paper. Take a look at Jim Raggi's 'Flame Princess' set-up. www.lotfp.com/RPG/ Love him or hate him, Raggi promotes his stuff heavily. When MA has something as polished as that, then I'll believe you're promoting it sufficiently. Just because I wasn't hopeful two months ago doesn't mean that I was (or am) your enemy. I am willing to help to the extent my modest blog is able. thoulsparadise.blogspot.com/2011/12/your-humble-hosts-seasonal-gift-to-you.htmlRegards, perdustin |
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Post by Craig J. Brain on Jan 28, 2012 1:08:16 GMT -6
I didn't declare MA "dead." I said that the situation is not promising. That's not something I want, but it's what I perceive. I'm not saying these things out of cruelty; I'm saying them because I'm concerned. Your perception is different of course. You are aware of things I am not aware of. I was referring to the voting on this site, where at that time nearly 50% of the voters claimed the game was dying, as well as the claims I have seen elsewhere - hence my use of the word "always". Last October, I applied for an account at www.metamorphosisalpha.net. I received an e-mail that said, "Your account is currently inactive, the administrator of the board will need to activate it before you can log in. You will receive another e-mail when this has occurred." I never received that other e-mail. That's why I perceive a lack of support. I haven't visited the boards since then. If no one is going to take the trouble to activate my account, why should I? It's like I'm not wanted. If a new user selected the option that they aren't going to post (as you did), then I ignore the new account and allow the auto script to delete it. We have a 1 post rule to keep spammers away, which is why we ask if new users will post or not. This is explained in the rules of the board. If you sign up again and select the "Yes I will post" option, you will have 72 hrs to make a single post, sometimes more as I have been known to reset the script. talking about the past, I'm talking about the future. No, when you wrote that, you wrote it in the present tense - here (in bold): modern audiences requires support that, sadly, WardCo is not prepared to maintain "is not" was used in the present tense when you wrote that. You also used the word " maintain" in conjunction with that. You wrote about the present, not the future. You may have meant the future, but you didn't write that. From my point of view - picture yourself waiting outside a garage. In the garage is the mechanic who has been servicing cars for the last 30 years. He's still in business and he still places ads in the local media advertising his business. You're sitting in your car, you haven't spoken to him and you don't know what his work schedule is. And you don't read the local paper. Why would you decide that he wasn't prepared to service your car now and with what facts would you prove that to your friends that you were going to tell? How would you expect the mechanic to react when he discovered you telling other people he is not prepared to service your car? How would you know what he is or is not prepared to do without asking him? I'm glad the POD is selling well. I want it to sell well. I linked to Lulu from my blog. For me, 'antique' is not a bad thing but I fear that it may be for younger gamers. Instead of saying "the larger RPG community," perhaps I should have said "the younger RPG community." I suspect that many of the POD purchasers have been older gamers already familiar with the game. To us, antique means classic. To younger gamers, something as old as MA may seem dated and unpromising. Perductin, I don't doubt your sincerity. And, thanks for the well wishes. My response was to what you wrote, not what you meant. Is there a Facebook page for MA? In fact there are now two. One has been going since sometime early last year from memory, and the second was started more recently by SignalFire Studios. No blog though. The forums, the homepage, the shameless plugs on other forums, the GW Yahoo! Group, the Facebook page and Twitter feeds, and CafePress Store I thought would be enough. You say Jamie Chambers is bringing MA5e to us in the "near" future? That's great. Is there a designers diary we can check out? Is there a way people can sign up to be playtesters? Is there a place we can see 'teasers' of the art? Details are on the SignalFires Studios homepage, which should be a lot more responsive now. You say there's a store at CafePress with a heap of things for sale? That's news to me, but I'm glad to hear it. Tell people about it. And don't forget to provide a link. It used to be in my signature, I'll see if I can get it back in there. Forgive me for being obvious, but to promote something means to draw attention to it. Try and start a meme. Try and maintain a front page presence on RPGGeek. Have contests. Have people submit amateur material. The prizes can be modest, a t-shirt or a copy of the book with a personalized autograph from Jim. Try googling "Metamorphosis Alpha YouTube". I've already done stuff and it's been around for a while. Jim's got a pile of modules that we have both signed to give away at conventions. We had a magazine for a while and we printed stuff from submissions, but we are a small company and between getting modules ready, new print versions of the rules ready, the electronic versions, the store, and the cost involved for a shoestring budget operation plus the time involved - I think we've achieved a lot with what we have got. Not to mention the projects that didn't get off the ground. Perdustin, Thanks for the explanation. As you can see from my responses, I addressed what you wrote, not what you meant. I don't regard you as an "enemy" of the game, quite the contrary. The fact that you were unaware of the store, and the videos and the Facebook page suggests that you may have overlooked the support that we have been providing. Heck, just check the Yahoo! Gamma World Group, which is the largest collection of our target audience, you'll see we have been busy. Craig J. Brain WardCo. |
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Post by perdustin on Jan 28, 2012 14:15:09 GMT -6
Craig, Allow me to express my apologies; it seems I was speaking of a position of ignorance and, evidently, my meaning was not as clear as I would have liked it to be. Now, with regard to www.metamorphosisalpha.net, I recall the requirement to post within 72 hours. I don't remember selecting an option that I wouldn't post; however, that was four months ago. Upon receiving the first e-mail, I assumed that I needed to wait for the second e-mail before the 72 hour limitation began. In any event, I didn't receive a second e-mail, not even one that said, "You are an idiot because you selected the option not to post." Let me belabor the car mechanic analogy further. Your logic is valid as far as locals go; however, it's not the locals you need to worry about. Let's say I'm a foreigner driving through town and I'm in need of a car mechanic. Advertisements in the local media aren't useful to me. I see something that might be a mechanic's shop, but the lights aren't on. The concept of mid-day lunch breaks are alien to me and a scrawled note that says "back in 5 min" doesn't help me. I need to see some dude in a gorilla costume on the street corner with a megaphone saying, "We want to fix your car!" (This is because, in my hypothetical culture, a talking gorilla is a sign of good fortune.) Absent the gorilla, the mechanic may very well find me discussing his lack of availability. You linked to a dictionary entry for "maintain." The fifth listed definition for that word is "Assert." That's exactly what you need to do, assert all of this information you have. You have a Twitter feed? That's something else you should have in your signature. You should think about a blog. The great thing about a blog is, whenever you publish a new post, all associated blog rolls are updated. That's like having a legion of dudes in gorilla costumes going around passing out flyers. Regards, perdustin |
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Post by Finarvyn on Jan 28, 2012 15:58:16 GMT -6
Allow me to express my apologies; it seems I was speaking of a position of ignorance and, evidently, my meaning was not as clear as I would have liked it to be. Too many times on message boards folks will take a position and if challenged both sides just up the ante are argue harder, whether they agree with their original position or are just being stubborn. I like the fact that you were willing to listen to Craig, respond intelligently, and actually apologize when you realized that you weren't 100% informed. Thank you! It's posters like this that make this board one of my favorite places to hang out. Perdustin, you get an EXALT from me for this post. |
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Post by Craig J. Brain on Jan 28, 2012 19:45:54 GMT -6
Perdustin,
Thanks! I equated you to be a "local" since you were blogging about the game and had done so in so much detail. Part of the reason why I couldn't fathom why I thought you had assumed that we are not prepared to support the game. I never suspected (until you responded) that you hadn't seen any of the other stuff that we have been doing.
I hope you enjoy the forums. I approved your account. You should have a PM, and an email on it's way shortly.
Craig J. Brain
WardCo.
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Some people are just determined to not be satisfied.