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Post by geoffrey on Mar 5, 2008 14:32:23 GMT -6
In 1987 Dave Arneson wrote: “Within the confines of Phil’s library there are still file cabinets and dusty tomes full of notes on Tekumel” (from the Introduction to the Tita’s House of Games reprint of the 1975 game, Empire of the Petal Throne).
Does anyone know if Prof. Barker has any plans to publish all this material?
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Post by James Maliszewski on Mar 5, 2008 14:58:12 GMT -6
It depends on what Mr. Arneson was referring to when he wrote that. In the years since, Professor Barker has published quite a few new bits of Tékumel material, available first through the now-defunct Blue Room ftp site and now through online merchants such as RPGNow and Drivethrurpg. These include histories of Engsvan hla Gánga, information on Kévuk, many grammars, and more. Now, I'm sure there remains information that the Professor hasn't yet published, such as the "secret" of Tékumel, but my guess is that there are no plans to do so.
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Post by geoffrey on Mar 5, 2008 17:44:20 GMT -6
James, thanks for the information. I didn't know all those Tekumel pdfs were available.  I'd prefer to have actual books. From what I understand, it's just as easy to publish actual books through lulu as it is to publish a pdf. And it costs just as much: Nothing. Do you think there is any chance that the good professor would consider publishing through lulu? If I had my way, Prof. Barker would publish everything through lulu ASAP, except for that "innermost secret" of Tekumel. For that he could simply have that ultimate secret prepared and ready to go, with instructions for his executor to take the final step in publishing it through lulu upon Prof. Barker's death. There's nothing I'd rather buy than the professor's complete works about Tekumel. |
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Post by badger2305 on Mar 5, 2008 17:52:45 GMT -6
It's great to hear about interest that people have in Tekumel. As one of the people who've been working on this, publishing the Professor's material as PDFs works well for people who want to search it electronically. As for Lulu, that's why Zottola Publishing handles these things. |
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Post by geoffrey on Mar 5, 2008 18:57:58 GMT -6
Badger, you have my respect and gratitude for all the work you're doing to make the professor's work available. I hope you don't take this post as having a lack of gratitude. From what I understand, it takes no more money or effort to publish in both book and pdf formats on lulu than to publish in pdf format alone. For example, I recently purchased the book version of The Phoenix Barony by David Bezio through lulu which is available in both formats. I own everything Zottola has published, but it appears that they haven't published anything new since Nov. 2004. Lastly, you might be interested in this thread I posted on dragonsfoot: www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=27929 |
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Post by pjork on Mar 5, 2008 19:54:37 GMT -6
I own everything Zottola has published, but it appears that they haven't published anything new since Nov. 2004. They also don't appear to have updated their web site in the intervening 3 years. |
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Post by badger2305 on Mar 5, 2008 22:54:53 GMT -6
Badger, you have my respect and gratitude for all the work you're doing to make the professor's work available. I hope you don't take this post as having a lack of gratitude. I don't. I'm glad you're interested in Prof. Barker's work. (nods) I've known of some of this, and I suspect Joe Z. and I will be talking about this some more. If you look through the Zottola Publishing stuff and the PDFs, you'll see my name in a few places. Yes, I saw that. That's a laudable goal, to want to find a "Christopher Tolkien" for Tekumel - should that ever become a reality, my hat will be off to that person. But there are a number of issues that make that not as easy as it first might seem, and so I do what I can, as do others. |
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casey777
Level 4 Theurgist
Herder of Chlen
Posts: 102 
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Post by casey777 on Mar 8, 2008 20:33:31 GMT -6
Zotpub has announced plans to *finally* republish the first two Tekumel novels. While they can be found in used bookstores it was annoying (at best) to have the later books in print but not the first two, esp. since IMO those books are better for introducing newbies to the setting. Since Zotpub's books are also available through Amazon, perhaps Amazon's alternative to Lulu (can't recall the name) might be an option?
While it's not ideal, the PDFs are usually dirt cheap and print without using much ink while still looking nice enough.
As for the OP, gamewise honestly I'm not sure how interested I'd in official Tekumel 401 or 501. I'd prefer a presentation of possible mysteries along with some possible solutions and other materials to help a GM come up with their own stuff.
More novels and such cool. A chain of succession and delegation of tasks could be very assuring.
Finally, Barker's dungeons and maps have a legendary status to them. Published adventures (and adventure maps) are extremely rare for Tekumel. So publishing any of those could be very cool.
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Post by geoffrey on Mar 8, 2008 22:08:58 GMT -6
Zotpub has announced plans to *finally* republish the first two Tekumel novels... Finally, Barker's dungeons and maps have a legendary status to them. Published adventures (and adventure maps) are extremely rare for Tekumel. So publishing any of those could be very cool. While I own the original publications of the first two novels, the lack of accent marks bothers me. I love wrapping my tongue around those names and words of the languages of the Five Empires. Ergo, when Zotpub re-publishes them, I'll buy them if they have the accent marks (which I think they will, since their other novels all have them). And that's a very good point about Prof. Barker's dungeons. I've heard that his dungeon levels are simply MASSIVE. I'd love to see those published. |
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Post by Melan on Apr 24, 2008 3:43:22 GMT -6
No kidding. I would rather have Mr. Barker's EPT dungeons than Castle Greyhawk! And I really want to have GH too.
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Post by badger2305 on Apr 24, 2008 7:17:13 GMT -6
No kidding. I would rather have Mr. Barker's EPT dungeons than Castle Greyhawk! And I really want to have GH too. That project is already underway. (And no, right now, I can't say any more about that.) |
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Post by geoffrey on Apr 24, 2008 10:16:05 GMT -6
May all the Pavarian gods grant the stats are in 1975 EPT terms.  |
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edsan
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
MUTANT LORD
Posts: 309
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Post by edsan on Apr 24, 2008 14:14:44 GMT -6
May all the Pavarian gods grant the stats are in 1975 EPT terms. ! Let us haste then to the temples and perform diligent sacrifice and libations in hopes this may indeed be so. |
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Post by badger2305 on Apr 24, 2008 15:18:09 GMT -6
May all the Pavarian gods grant the stats are in 1975 EPT terms. Well, actually, the material I am working from is phrased in those terms, so it would involve converting it to later systems. In other words, the Gods have already smiled upon your plea. (And I'd better shut up now.) |
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Thorulfr
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 264
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Post by Thorulfr on Apr 24, 2008 18:31:03 GMT -6
May all the Pavarian gods grant the stats are in 1975 EPT terms. Well, actually, the material I am working from is phrased in those terms, so it would involve converting it to later systems. In other words, the Gods have already smiled upon your plea. (Deep in the bowels of the temple of Ksárul, standing, dagger in heand, above the bound captive, the notes of the Tunkul-gong seeping down through the ancient stones from far above. He looks up in surprise and delight.) "La! Really?" <says to captive> "Well, I guess you can go then... ...naaaaa, just kidding." [the rest of the scene is redacted to preserve the reader's sanity] |
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Post by Melan on Apr 24, 2008 23:16:22 GMT -6
No kidding. I would rather have Mr. Barker's EPT dungeons than Castle Greyhawk! And I really want to have GH too. That project is already underway. (And no, right now, I can't say any more about that.) You don't even have to. Have an exalt, just for the possibility! Lá! ;D |
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Post by grodog on Apr 26, 2008 22:17:52 GMT -6
So, I was never into EPT back in the day (didn't really know much about it before meeting Tadashi back in 2002 or so), so I'm unfamiliar with the rumors/legends about Barker's Tekumel dungeons. Someone please fill me in!  |
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Post by grodog on May 2, 2008 9:07:39 GMT -6
So, I was never into EPT back in the day (didn't really know much about it before meeting Tadashi back in 2002 or so), so I'm unfamiliar with the rumors/legends about Barker's Tekumel dungeons. Someone please fill me in! Please? |
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Post by badger2305 on May 2, 2008 9:46:32 GMT -6
So, I was never into EPT back in the day (didn't really know much about it before meeting Tadashi back in 2002 or so), so I'm unfamiliar with the rumors/legends about Barker's Tekumel dungeons. Someone please fill me in! Please? ::grumble::grumble:: Oh, alright. You asked politely, and a cup of decent Ngalu-wine is enough to loosen my tongue.... The Underworld of Jakalla is mighty in myth and legend. The various catacombs begin in their depths with the edifices of the Ancients, before the Time of Darkness - the bleak, unadorned corridors and rooms marked with the angular, boxy script of the Ancients, now unreadable. It is said that the Omnipotent Azure Legion maintains a means of reaching the Tubeway car station, and by various means travelers may journey to Avanthar and elsewhere in Tsolyanu. Above that can be found rooms and passageways that date to the Latter Times, the time of Llyan of Tsamra, and his successors. Then emerge the blocky, massive architectural markings of the Bednalljans, with their ponderous traps that would crush the unwary tomb robber. The tomb of Queen Nayari's lover, Mnekshetra, is said to be located here - she sleeps, awaiting the kiss of her long-lost royal lover - and if anyone else dares, they will join her in death. The passageways are not clean and easily charted, swept of debris by helpful "dungeon denizens" - quite the contrary. There are passages that go nowhere, rooms changed from their original use, walls moved and then moved again, piles of unknown refuse that might hold an item of value, if anyone knew how to recognize it. Nor are these corridors and chambers uninhabited. Various creatures that never emerge into the bright light of Tuleng stir in the depths, waiting for food to bring itself closer. Creatures such as Nshe, seemingly formed from water but able to crush a man. Or the Sramuthu - intelligent scavengers that mimic other organisms, looking like a small child or a clan-mother, save for the slight deformity of their lower limbs. And if you are very unlucky, you might hear a faint chiming sound, or the whiff of cinnamon, or perhaps see an eerie blue light - if you run, you can avoid the dreaded Ssu. Still far from the surface and Jakalla's teeming streets, there are the Engsvanyali levels, with their stately ornaments and delicate carvings and proud inscriptions in that antique noble tongue. Here you will find relics of a fallen mighty past, when the Priest-Kings reigned over half the world and beyond, and Ganga still stood above the waves. Somewhere not far from this depth (and perhaps not altogether on this plane of existence), you may come to a cavernous place where there are plants of a curious pallor spread about in ornately arranged ways - the Garden of the Weeping Snows. Striding amongst these ghastly white growths are warriors garbed in rich armor that mark them as members of a long-forgotten legion. Ruling over this place is Nyelmu, a mighty sorcerer who dared challenge the Gods, who then exiled him to the Garden forever. If you amuse Nyelmu, he might let you go - otherwise he might add you to his collection of grotesque "statuary" - those who have offended him, caught in the awful glare of the Excellent Ruby Eye in a moment of torment. And yet above all of this are the older layers of Old Tsolyanu and nearest to the surface are the passageways and streets leveled during the last Ditlana, merging inperceptably into the basements and chambers under clanhouses and temples of modern Jakalla. Here furtive tomb-robbers and work-parties of the Temples can be found, vying for items left by their original owners - or perhaps those who have dared to venture into the depths. Enough of this - if you wish to know more, gather up your courage and form yourselves into a true "band of heroes" and venture forth. But remember: chlen-hide alone will not save you - grimly won knowledge and sorcery might also be of help. Since I can no longer see (the Alungtisa clouds my eyes) only my words can assist you - and those only so far! Go! ::pause:: Prof. Barker drew upon his experiences in playing D&D, and charted the Underworld of Jakalla (amongst other places). It should be noted that this was done not as a real map of the Underworld - that would be impossible as it goes for miles and miles underground and is constantly changing - but as a kind of approximation, for the purposes of his campaign. It's rather extensive. |
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Thorulfr
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 264
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Post by Thorulfr on May 2, 2008 10:35:12 GMT -6
::grumble::grumble:: Oh, alright. You asked politely, and a cup of decent Ngalu-wine is enough to loosen my tongue.... Wow... ;D Exalt! |
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Post by grodog on May 4, 2008 10:20:13 GMT -6
::grumble::grumble:: Oh, alright. You asked politely, and a cup of decent Ngalu-wine is enough to loosen my tongue.... [snip] Prof. Barker drew upon his experiences in playing D&D, and charted the Underworld of Jakalla (amongst other places). It should be noted that this was done not as a real map of the Underworld - that would be impossible as it goes for miles and miles underground and is constantly changing - but as a kind of approximation, for the purposes of his campaign. It's rather extensive. A very interesting take on the "dungeon" concept (and certainly truer to mythological sources for the underworld than say Castle Greyhawk ). Thanks Victor! So, have various tidbits about Jakalla's Underworld been expounded upon/published in various Tekumel sources/newsletters/etc., or in the novels, or is this info about the Underworld only around due to word-of-mouth from folks who've played in Barker's games? If I wanted to compile a list of sources for Underworld similar to what I've done for Castle Greyhawk (see www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/gh_castle_sources.html for example), where would I start? |
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Post by Epengar on May 6, 2008 16:01:16 GMT -6
At least some of what Victor posted is definitely in the Tekumel Sourcebook (Swords & Glory Volume 1), and I think a fair amount of it is in OEPT too.
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Post by badger2305 on May 6, 2008 16:53:57 GMT -6
At least some of what Victor posted is definitely in the Tekumel Sourcebook (Swords & Glory Volume 1), and I think a fair amount of it is in OEPT too. Quite true. I did write that off the top of my head, though. No Tekumelani Underworld has ever been published, however. Some of them have been explored by various adventurers - Jakalla, Bey Su, Cho'chi, and to a lesser extent, Fasiltum and Tsamra. The last was completely impervious to attempts to map it - between the Livyani (later Livyani resistance) and then the Mu'ugalavyani, nothing ever stayed accessible the same way twice. There's a cameo appearance of the Bey Su Underworld in Man of Gold, another of the Garden of Weeping Snows in Flamesong, and that of Tsamra figured briefly in Lords of Tsamra. |
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Post by Epengar on May 8, 2008 8:56:07 GMT -6
Much of the latter portion of Man of Gold occurs deep beneath the city of Purdimal.
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Post by alvahardison on May 24, 2008 10:10:32 GMT -6
True on the Man of Gold. I've found over the years that when it comes to underworlds I don't map them before hand. I have a random generator to tell what general type of area the party is in then go from there. The best visual I've found is the series "Cities of the Underworld" on the History Channel Monday around 8PM central USA. They've had Rome, Naples, Istanbul, and Paris just to name a few that gave me good ideas on Tekumel underworlds.
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Post by dwayanu on May 24, 2008 10:26:34 GMT -6
I get the impression that an expedition into Barker's underworld is probably not played with a consistent "movement turn" scale as usual in D&D. My guess is that unless players immediately take a special interest in an area, long stretches get glossed over.
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Post by grodog on Aug 14, 2008 12:33:36 GMT -6
At least some of what Victor posted is definitely in the Tekumel Sourcebook (Swords & Glory Volume 1), and I think a fair amount of it is in OEPT too. Quite true. I did write that off the top of my head, though. No Tekumelani Underworld has ever been published, however. Some of them have been explored by various adventurers - Jakalla, Bey Su, Cho'chi, and to a lesser extent, Fasiltum and Tsamra. The last was completely impervious to attempts to map it - between the Livyani (later Livyani resistance) and then the Mu'ugalavyani, nothing ever stayed accessible the same way twice. There's a cameo appearance of the Bey Su Underworld in Man of Gold, another of the Garden of Weeping Snows in Flamesong, and that of Tsamra figured briefly in Lords of Tsamra. Very interesting! I'll have to go dig around to see which other EPT books I have; I think that I have S&G1, but am not sure offhand. IIRC you also mentioned recently-ish that Barker's EPT novels were also recently reprinted? |
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oldgeezer
Level 3 Conjurer
Original Blackmoor Participant
Posts: 70
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Post by oldgeezer on Aug 16, 2008 21:42:48 GMT -6
Phil mapped Jakalla on 10-square to the inch graph paper, 17 x 22 inches.
That son of a b*tching thing is HUGE.
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Post by grodog on Aug 17, 2008 20:25:09 GMT -6
That's my size map, Michael: did you ever explore it fully (ha!)? |
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