Missile Weapons Damage in EPT

[edsan]

Hello all,

All the characters in my campaign leveled up last session and the Warrior got his first missile weapon skill. While having his PC go out to the Armoury of Bushetra the Smith the player asked me for the stats of bows, crossbows and their ilk.

Now, when checking the rules I noticed they state (quite cleary) that missile weapons do solely one die (1d4 or 1d6) of damage and NO damage dice either from high stats or level are added to them.

Could I have your thoughts on the rationale behind this?

This rule certainly seems to undermine the power of missile weapons in the game. It also makes Warriors whimpy on ranged attacks compared to Priests and Sorcerers which can get acess to multi-die or insta-kill ranged spells.

[greentongue]

I believe that is for "niche protection".
If warriors were great for both melee _and_ ranged attacks, it would marginalize casters. IMHO.

Warriors can repeatedly fire arrows, most spells are once a day.
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[edsan]

greentongue said:

I believe that is for "niche protection

You just gave me a wonderful idea!

Want to make an archer or crossbowman in EPT? Perhaps a javeliner or a slinger that would give a goliathan N'luss a run for his money?

Just make a Warrior that adds bonus damage dice to ranged attacks but not to melee.

I still think giving only one die of damage for missiles is a bit extreme. The chance of killing even a Lvl 1 foe with one shot is minimal.

I think I will allow ranged weapons to do a set damage of 1d4+1d6 or 2d6, depending on type. If the shooter is a "ranged fighter" the damage will increase with level and high stats.

Now, if I just change the Warrior Skills Table to give a shooter acess to missile skill earlier I have created a new class. Huzzah!
Now all we need is a good Class Title.

Man, I love Old School! ;D

[korgoth]

edsan said:

Now, when checking the rules I noticed they state (quite cleary) that missile weapons do solely one die (1d4 or 1d6) of damage and NO damage dice either from high stats or level are added to them.

I don't think this is quite right. The Damage Dice section just says that no bonuses are added to missle fire (like from Str, Int, etc.). That clause seems to come after the general rule that the number of dice you roll is determined by reference to the chart. There is no "base damage" for the weapons as I see it... you roll xd4 or xd6 for a hit based upon the Damage Dice chart. You then add your attribute and other bonuses to the sum of the number of dice rolled. When using a missile, you roll only the dice and add no bonuses.

That's how I read it.

[edsan]

korgoth said:

I don't think this is quite right.

Let me see...on re-reading the rules I think you are partialy right and that I made a mistake is interpreting the rules.


Analysis:

Sec. 721 says "Most weapons do a *basic* 1d6 damage" and then enunciates the exceptions that do 1d4, 1d6+1 or 1d6+2 base damage.

I think this pretty clearly points out there is an innate basic damage value for all weapons.

Sec. 730 says that when a blow hits a target the attacker rolls the number of d6's stated on the chart below (thus weapons with a basic 1d4 damage value still get d6's added to them, not d4's).

To this he adds *bonus* gained from Sec. 400 (i.e. stats) plus *bonus* gained from Sec. 721 (i.e. weapons).

The following sentence reads "NO bonuses are added, however, if he has hit with a missile..."

Conclusions:

1) Every weapon has a 1dx value of base damage. This is added to the dice on the matrix. It makes sense. If you hit someone with a piece of sharpened chlen-hide you will do more damage than just using your fists. It also provides a rationale why intelligent and semi-intelligenct monsters would use weapons.

2) Damage dice gained from high stats as well as the base weapon damage die are both considered *bonuses*

3) The damage dice value from the Matrix on Sec. 730 is NOT a bonus, it represent the innate ability of a character/creature to deal out damage based on level. (this is where I got things wrong previously)

4) When using missile attacks, bonus damage dice (those gained from stats & base weapon dmg) are not counted which means you would just roll the number of D6's given on Sec. 730 Matrix.

This still means that a Warrior using a bow won't do more than 1d6 damage vs anything until he reaches Lvl IV and above.

5) Now, to further complicate things Sec. 721 does say that light missiles (darts and their like?) and thrown rocks do a base 1d4 dmg.
This contradicts Sec. 730 which points out these dice are bonus and therefore not added to missile damage. Why bothering listing this base value? I guess given the weak nature of these weapons your xd4 ruling might be applied here.

So a Lvl VII Warrior lobing a rock at a HD 2 creature would roll 2d4 Dmg. If he used the rock in melee to pound the creature he would do 1d4+2d6+stat bonus damage.


I think this may be the more balanced interpretation. It still allows for "niche protection" but makes missiles more deadly in the hands of higher level characters and still allows for the creation of a "Shooter" Warrior variant.

[greentongue]

Sec. 730 says that when a blow hits a target the attacker rolls the number of d6's stated on the chart below (thus weapons with a basic 1d4 damage value still get d6's added to them, not d4's).

I may be wrong but I believe that the Number of Dice is of the type the weapon has. As most use D6, that is the example given.
(This is Old School, every exception is not give a paragraph of its own.)

So a missle weapon that gets d4, at higher levels get 2d4, 3d4, etc. not the d4+d6, d4+2d6, etc. as assumed.
IMHO.

Still no reason an "Archer Class" cannot be created.
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[Epengar]

edsan said:

Now, if I just change the Warrior Skills Table to give a shooter access to missile skill earlier I have created a new class. Huzzah!
Now all we need is a good Class Title.

Man, I love Old School! ;D

There is a special warrior order in the Temple of Karakan that is for missile specialists. It is called The Righteous Ones of the Arcing Shaft, and admits all kinds of shooters: archers and crossbowmen, artillerists, and the occasional slinger. One might expect that membership is restricted to worshipers of the Lord of Glorious War, but I can imagine that it might also accept followers of the other Good/Stability gods, if they were suitably skilled. The order is different in that it's focused on the practice of particular skills, most other temple factions are dedicated to more abstract theological or political principles. The society is mentioned in Barker's Temple of Karakan essay and in Mitlanyal, and maybe in the blue Adventures on Tekumel book. Nothing is said about what they do, except the general note that the orders or factions within this temple are a lot less secretive than analogous groups in other temples, and that they arrange advanced training for members. I imagine the Righteous Ones sponsor shooting matches and hunts, have special arrangements with bowyers, fletchers, and other crafters, and offer special instruction in the advanced arts of shooting and ballistics. This on top of the general social and political functions of the factions: social interaction, career advancement, mutual aid, etc.