How would you manage entrepreneurial 1st lvl MU?

[kent]

Imagine the first game of the campaign is starting in two weeks time and as DM you are keen to get some solo play with your players in your newly designed city so that the party hits the ground running on Game Day.

Now, I want to play a 1st level MU but I have been playing with ideas for six 1st level spells of my own devising and I want to sell you as DM in our solo pre-game session on a scheme I have so that I can begin the game proper with these six spells in my first level spellbook.

Say I have 40 gps to my name. How do get hold of 2000 gps to have a 20% chance of successfully researching my spell? Well I am desperate and I hunt down a loanshark and offer him 4000 gps in one month for 2000 gps now. Frankly if he doesn't go for it I prepared to try to murder and rob him. [no xps for this obviously]

The truth is my idea only has a 20% chance of working but might be fun to have a bunch of goons looking to kill me in the city if my research doesn't bear fruit!

The idea is to hawk my first innovation to other magic-users in the city. The spell should be simple and demonstrably useful in the city, say, 'Kent's Day of Exemplary Service' so that very minor interactions in daily duties become pleasant, presented reliably good food, the best seating, prompt respectful service, barmaids stroking my beard and so on.

The point is we get to explore the city, plant some life threatening plot hooks, I try to make contact with more powerful MUs for future training or adventures. I use the money from my sales to research my second innovation in spell craft, and so on. Perhaps I won't pay the loanshark back even if I have generated enough money.

Would you as a DM run with this or not?

[crusssdaddy]

I think this loanshark is a dummy. Two large to a rookie spellcaster? A stray arrow or a 10' pit and that dough is a memory...

[waysoftheearth]

As a ref I'd let the player run with whatever bright (or otherwise) ideas they can come up with.

First thing I'd be thinking would be... what loanshark has an easy 2,000 gp just lying around? Most actual "loans" are either petty cash or else relaxing a requirement to repay interest on some other debit until next week.

The next most obvious thing would be... as soon as the loanshark has loaned the coin, he sends his thugs out to steal it back. Thus recouping his coin and gaining a new "customer" who is 2,000 gp indebted to him.

The next thing is... how many wizards are there in this city any way? If it were one of my games, probably not very many at all. And why would they bother to pay for what they can simply take?

These are all fun questions to play out though... so I'd say just take a punt and see what happens. A lot will depend on the kind of game your ref wants to run. Have fun with it.

[kent]

Ha, no soft touches here I see. 2000 is a bit much all right but that's what I need according to the book for my research. An alternative could be to [in the manner of Cugel] break into an out-of-town MU's laboratory which [according to AD&D costs and so a conceivable idea] would reduce my expenditure to a manageable 200 gps. No doubt this would extremely dangerous, but hey I live life on the edge.

By the way its just a thought experiment as Im reading through my OD&D books. I always DM.

My next offer would be to adventure with a couple of heavies (the other PC Fighting Men) until we scraped together over a 1000 gps between us and then visit the loanshark showing him our stake, asking for 8-900. I like the idea of being in debt to a gangster and just blowing him off with flippant remarks, film-noir style.

The *larger* point though is why could I not sell my inventions to fund further research? I expect in a city there would be some demand for novel 1st level spells.

[tavis]

I would totally run with this because I love the stories that come out of the entrepreneurial approach. Having the Adventurer Conqueror King rules would make me feel a lot more confident about being able to run with it all the way - it'd let me work out the answers to questions like "what level is someone who has 2K in gold available for lending likely to be," "what are the resources of the thieves' hideout that would have a loanshark like this as a follower," and "how many buyers for new spells are there in a city of size X."

[waysoftheearth]

Aug 24, 2011 22:05:41 GMT -6 kent said:

Ha, no soft touches here I see.

I do fret that I am far too lenient to make a good ref

Aug 24, 2011 22:05:41 GMT -6 kent said:

The *larger* point though is why could I not sell my inventions to fund further research? I expect in a city there would be some demand for novel 1st level spells.

There is certainly no reason why you can't try!

I think that various guilds, cults, brotherhoods etc. are a feature of most "medieval" game settings. These protectionist organisations are all about deterring whoever might attempt to tread on their turf.

Wizards are no different from any other craftsmen in this regard. If anything, they are even more jealous of their secrets (a.k.a. livelihoods).

The idea that one craftsman would actually want to sell his trade secrets off to his competitors as a commodity item is a very modern notion. Revolutionary even. Some troublemakers might even say it goes against the natural order of things...

There's no denying it would make for interesting times though.

Think of those competing Wizards in Vance selling their spells off to one another for mere coin!

[crusssdaddy]

It's not a loanshark having 2000gp that I find amiss, it's that he would be loaning it to some random m-u from the street. I worked in a casino for a few years and saw loansharking firsthand - the only people they lent to were people they knew well. It's an amazing culture to observe, and nothing like what is commonly portrayed for dramatic effect.

Any loanshark that does business with m-u's should have some sort of anti-magic spoofing capacity. Otherwise, he's only a Forget spell away from destitution...

Maybe a protection racket could be more profitable for your m-u:

M-U: "You have a nice place. I'd hate to come in every day and cast Stinking Cloud."

Restaurant Owner: "@#!$%@#! gangsters..."

[jjarvis]

A well cast Charm Person or Sleep spell could easily resolve the whole financing issue.

[Deleted]

As judge, I would not allow it... simply because you've "waved away" six months worth of adventuring. I would rather have a player tell me "This is what I want to do once the game starts," rather than "This is what I want to have done before the game starts." I like the idea, but I'd want to play it all out, not handwave it.

[ragnorakk]

I think the idea is cool, and it isn't a case of hand-waving away 6 months of adventure - he's talking about playing this out with the MU in one-on-one play. Personally, this is the kind of thing that I would love to see players do - provided that they know that the repercussions of failure can potentially be just as horrible for failure as normal dungeoneering. As a first level MU, I might personally think that the player would have to deal with some broken knee-caps (at least) in the near future, but that's their choice. (I should state also that I do not make the costs and hoops of magical research so high, narrow, or fiery!)

A lot really seems to depend on the particulars of how you "run magic" in your campaign. I've never been one for a Wizard's Guild - magi are generally mentored and are on their own to develop further in their abilities. I understand the rationale for the Guild and do not think it is flawed or anything, just not to my tastes.

Anyway - I'm rambling. I would love to be presented with such a situation by a player, but the success of the venture is not something I would hand over without some seriously good playing.

[Deleted]

Aug 25, 2011 11:03:43 GMT -6 ragnorakk said:

I think the idea is cool, and it isn't a case of hand-waving away 6 months of adventure - he's talking about playing this out with the MU in one-on-one play.

Okay, I think I got confused by his comment about "begin the game proper".

See, in Greyhawk there was no such thing as "the adventuring group" that was always there every time; Gary had about 15 or 20 players but only ran them 3 or 4 at a time. There was a LOT of solo play all along; I don't think of solo play as something unusual or that just happens at the beginning of the game.

[Deleted]

This is a bit off topic, but that's one thing that I really think has changed for the worse over the years. The idea of a "regular" group that has to play together at all times. I always liked the idea of keeping track of time because different pc's are all around the map doing stuff, wether a solo adventure in town or a small group in some dungeon.

[kent]

Aug 25, 2011 12:24:56 GMT -6 @gronanofsimmerya said:

There was a LOT of solo play all along; I don't think of solo play as something unusual or that just happens at the beginning of the game.

As a DM I love solo play. It requires inventiveness from players though.

Aug 25, 2011 11:03:43 GMT -6 ragnorakk said:

Personally, this is the kind of thing that I would love to see players do - provided that they know that the repercussions of failure can potentially be just as horrible for failure as normal dungeoneering. As a first level MU, I might personally think that the player would have to deal with some broken knee-caps (at least) in the near future, but that's their choice. (I should state also that I do not make the costs and hoops of magical research so high, narrow, or fiery!)

Exactly, I expect you are a DM I could work with.

Certainly, with my DMs hat back on, a player's plan should never go to plan. The gangster might foresee that he could turn me into a spy once I have ingratiated myself with a significant wizard or two with cheap amusing novelty spells. Or a wizard who is creatively burnt out might imprison me in his laboratory churning out ideas ... forcing me to devise for my escape a spell ostensibly with some other use.

[Necropraxis]

@hack

An interesting point, and one that I agree with. I wonder what led to this change? I imagine the 'party quest' stories (The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings) had something to do with it, especially since earlier Sword & Sorcery fiction is more commonly about individual adventurers (a pair in the case of Lankhmar). And the 'adventure path' style of modules (was the Dragonlance cycle the first?) where you go from A to B to C to D etc, and for continuity it seems like you need the same group in perpetuity.

It really is an interesting development, especially since practically speaking it fits adult gaming schedules so poorly.