Loving EPT

[doc]

I am about 70% of the way through reading the original EPT rules and let me tell you, I am SOLD! This is a great game and I can't believe that I've just totally ignored it for the nearly 25 years that I've been gaming. What was I thinking?

The mechanics reflect the setting, yet are so close to OD&D that it is a snap for a person new to the game to pick up on the essentials. The skill system, while simple, works perfectly for the game and allows for so many useful options (particularly in the second two lists) that even with only three available classes there is no way that any two characters will be similar to each other. I do have some questions about the rules that seem kinda fuzzy, but I'll get into them another day.

The setting is a wonder of diverse interests. The kingdoms are places of law and authority where thousands of years of traditions dictate who you are, what you can do, and who you may associate with. Veer from those conditions and consequences can be deadly. Yet at the same time, the world outside the five kingdoms is a wild and wooly place containing lost cities, blasphemous temples, and Cthulian horrors aplenty. Sometimes you don't even have to trave very far to find them because any of them might be hidden beneath the very streets of the Empire.

I love the idea of the character starting out as outlanders and barbarians new to the Empire. The characters slowly come to learn and understand the subtle nuances of Tekumel society as the players themselves are learning. In time their exploits may gain them admittance to one of the High Clans. If the party becomes powerful enough, they might even form their own clan and attempt to impact the Empire itself. Allof this makes not only for great role-playing, but a good incentive for getting the players to think ahead beyond the next "dungeon haul" to try to carve a future for themselves.

Did I mention that I really love this game?

Doc

[dwayanu]

Yeah, it hooked me as soon as I got it in my hands (about the same time as D&D).

If you've read a lot of old S&S/SF, then there's an immediate recognition. The "weird" in a Jack Vance story was usually founded in historical precedents. There's a difference between watching a B-movie supposedly set in the "ancient orient" (really Huntington Beach or the Spanish riviera) and actually landing in Baghdad or Mumbai today.

Anyway, it beats a game of "Conan Goes to the Shopping Mall of Doom."

[Finarvyn]

doc said:

I am about 70% of the way through reading the original EPT rules and let me tell you, I am SOLD!

That's one thing about those early TSR game systems -- they are just so neat it's hard to explain.

The mechanics are not designed to be super-realistic, but instead to play well. The games are not designed as a slick and glossy product, but instead look like something that you or I might have written. This is the case with OD&D, EPT, Boot Hill, and many of the other games of the era -- they just had that "something" and were special.

I'm glad you finally found EPT, even if it's 25 years old!

[doc]

In one of the very first D&D games I ever played in, one of the older kids had an assassin called "The Grey Hand." I finally get the reference.

A lot of the magical/technological items are just plain sick! I can easily see a group of D&D munchkins salivating over the unique items and making it their life's quest to own all four of the Thoroughly Useful Eyes.

Okay, so let me see if I have this straight: fighters have to pick what weapons they are proficient in from the fighter list, but priests and magic users are automatically skilled in their respective weapons without having to use list slots for them? That doesn't sound right. Why are fighters required to spend slots for weapons but not the other classes?

Doc

[James Maliszewski]

doc said:

Okay, so let me see if I have this straight: fighters have to pick what weapons they are proficient in from the fighter list, but priests and magic users are automatically skilled in their respective weapons without having to use list slots for them? That doesn't sound right. Why are fighters required to spend slots for weapons but not the other classes?

You need to bear in mind what a "skill" represents in EPT. Most of them aren't narrowly focused on the one specific thing named by them. Rather, they're a "bundle" of skills that a clever player can use in a variety of ways. For example, a warrior who is skilled with a sword might use his skill to recognize finely crafted weapons or have a knowledge of the etiquette of dueling, while one who is skilled with bows might be good at long-range spotting or detecting changes in the wind.

The possibilities are endless really. Since there's no mechanic for how any skills work, I'd suggest that each one is just a shorthand description for a bunch of innate and learned abilities that relate to the name of the skill. Otherwise, warriors really do get the shaft.

[greentongue]

Also keep in mind that the non-warrior classes have reduced damage with their weapons.
(Which implies that warriors also have this reduction when using an "unskilled" weapon.)

It is good to remember that skills are WHY not HOW a character can do something. As just mentioned, any possible relationship can be infered.
=

[James Maliszewski]

greentongue said:

Also keep in mind that the non-warrior classes have reduced damage with their weapons.
(Which implies that warriors also have this reduction when using an "unskilled" weapon.)

Yes, I'd forgotten this bit. In EPT, the amount of damage you do with a weapon is based on your level compared to the level/Hit Dice of your opponent. Beginning at 4th level, a warrior does 2D6 against level 1/1 HD creatures, for example. Priests don't get the same advantage till level 5 and magic-users don't get it till level 6.

[doc]

Actually for many of the skills there ARE skill mechanics that state that the skill in question uses the same percentage table as the one for spell success/failure. Which is to say, a character with the Assessin skill would have a base chance of 40% to perform all assassin-type actions when they first get the skill, but would eventually rise to 100% skill level over time.\

Doc

[bigjackbrass]

My Empire of the Petal Throne game starts tomorrow night. Although I have been playing around with various things Tékumel for ages the last time I actually ran EPT was probably fifteen years ago. That game was memorable for the player who convinced himself that an Excellent Ruby Eye was a grenade - I think that his character still stands in the underworld to this day, frozen in time ;D

Because "old school" games are generally quite open and easy to alter I have found only a few definite changes I'll be making for the upcoming game, mainly in changing "Good and Evil" to "Stability and Change" and giving XP for considerably more than just killing and looting - pretty standard stuff, in other words.

Most of the gamers in the group are keen on story games and things such as Everway and Amber Diceless, so getting them to deal with Armour Class may be quite a challenge!

[thorswulf]

As far as warriors and weapon use goes look at what a priest can use: blunt weapons, and only things like a flail or morning star if their strength is high enough! Daggers only do 1-4 points of damage so MU's are not going to do a terrible ammount of damage! When I play warriors the initial class skills tend to help fill in background for me. Maybe a character who is a sailor with spearman, mace/flail user and axeman was a Marine?

[doc]

Okay, here's another question:

When spellcasting characters go up a level, do they roll on each percentile to see if they learn new spells, or just pick one?

For example, if a character raised a lavel and his spell progression looked something like this:

Two first level spells: 80%
One second level and one first level spell: 90%


Would he roll for both chances? If so, then by the time a character starts reaching 5th-6th level, he is going to potentially gain a LOT of new spells per level.

Doc

[bert]

IMO roll ONCE, 01-79 nowt, 80-89 2x Lev I spells, 90-00 1 x Lev II and 1 x Lev I

Getting a new spell per level (other than the standard priest/sorceror abilities) will not become routine until 5th level.

[doc]

Okay, now I'm getting ready to put together an EPT adventure. I have three of my six players already with characters rolled up and ready to run. My question is, what's a good introductory set-up for EPT? I want something besides the equivalent of "There's goblins in the hills." I want something that's going to convey the feel of the setting right from the start.

Any suggestions?

Doc

[greentongue]

You could look here for some ideas.
www.tekumel.com/gaming_advideas.html
=

[bigjackbrass]

For my new game I've taken the original notion of the "barbarians" fresh off the boat and added a slight twist. Inspired by thoughts of cargo cults and the Prince Philip Movement of Tanna (a brief description of which can be found on Wikipedia) I have set the PCs the task of taking a tribute from their island home to the God-Emperor.

The backstory is that the island was accidentally discovered by a shipload of Tsolyani who claimed it for the empire, repaired their ship and headed home (but may perhaps never have arrived there), leaving behind one priest who tried his best to educate the islanders and introduce them to religion and culture. Years later, with their culture now a mish-mash of Tsolyani, native beliefs and outright misunderstandings, our naive heroes are off on a sacred mission to deliver their tribute. This gives some logical background to the task of the players learning about Tekumel.

I had the players choose many of the details, with the result that we have three Sarku-worshippers taking a slave to be sacrificed in front of the Emperor. All they know is that the Tsolyani ship headed off "in that direction" and they'll be doing the same... Already there have emerged differing attitudes and ambitions between the characters, which doubtless will change again as they begin to encounter intrigue and politics on their quest to Avanthar.

Session one went very well and ended with our heroes, newly shipwrecked, about to meet the head of a coastal village, a man who has a sad story to tell them.

[doc]

Okay, I have my five victi... heroes ready for EPT. They are:

Septha: A priestess of the mysterious Shadow Gods.
Reyu: A tracker from the Desert of Sighs.
Ra'za: A Pechani swordsman.
Sayira: A N'luss woman looking to crack heads.
Kargoth: A sorcerer raised aboard a brutal pirate ship.

I have a few ideas as to how to start off the campaign. One idea is to have them all hired by a Clan representative to oversee slaves building a temple. When the 200 slaves decide to revolt, the players have to take care of it one way or the other.

Another idea is that the players are picked to sneak into a tomb and take something that the clan rep says belonged to his clan two thousand years ago but was stolen by a rival clan and interred with it's leader. At some point it will become apparant that the clan rep is being less than truthful, and then what will the players decide to do?

A more simple and blunt idea is that the players are conscripted into an outlander military unit in a skirmish against Yan Kor. Depending on how the characters fight and distinguish themselves, they could earn some kudos and a clan benefactor following the battle, or end up as nameless corpses on a battlefield.

That's just off the top of my head. We don't actually play for another week and a half or so.

Doc

[casey777]

doc said:

Actually for many of the skills there ARE skill mechanics that state that the skill in question uses the same percentage table as the one for spell success/failure.

I'd totally missed this until now. Much thanks!

thorswulf said:

When I play warriors the initial class skills tend to help fill in background for me. Maybe a character who is a sailor with spearman, mace/flail user and axeman was a Marine?

Hrm, that may also allow for Warrior Priests, esp. if you'd allow a pick or two of more priestly (tho not spells) picks. I'd prefer to not make a new Warrior Priest class if possible but still find them interesting.

I do think it might be useful to fold in some weapons from later TSR games, in description if nothing else esp. if you only have EPT. And some of the temples would use other weapons, like Karakan and Vimulha and some others would likely use garrotes and the like. ;D

[casey777]

greentongue said:

You could look here for some ideas.
www.tekumel.com/gaming_advideas.html

Of those www.tekumel.com/gaming_advTOTDP.html is likely the closest to ye traditional dungeoncrawle.

Also
www.tekumel.com/gaming_advlocales.html
www.tekumel.com/gaming_tools.html (also has a list of names)
www.tekumel.com/gaming_advadvice.html (has the TSR EPT articles free for download, including plenty of rumors & reports, a battle account and a name generator)

The fanzines here www.tekumel.com/archive.html often have locale if not adventure writeups.

games.groups.yahoo.com/group/tekumel/files/ has more though the organization is scattershot.

[casey777]

doc said:

Okay, I have my five victi... heroes ready for EPT. They are:

A fun mix that could use a spark to unite them. A common patron, organization, or enemy (enemies)? Or all three?

The first, if you like, could be a Livyani, very fun. Like tattooed aristocratic British Nubians. They *know* they're better than the rather mundane, boring Tsoylani upstarts. They also think the other Empires, who are only just now learning how to read & write, don't know how to treat women properly; how uncivilized!

When the 200 slaves decide to revolt, the players have to take care of it one way or the other.

Slaves in this setting are like slaves in Meso-American and the Classical world. They're also better treated (more or less) than clanless and foreigners. So while they can (and do) revolt there has to be a really good reason why & some chance of succeeding as they're for a long trip on a blunt spike if caught.

At some point it will become apparant that the clan rep is being less than truthful, and then what will the players decide to do?

A good way to introduce conflicting goals. The clan rep may be acting for temple or occupation in this case, instead of clan...or both at the same time!

A more simple and blunt idea is that the players are conscripted into an outlander military unit in a skirmish against Yan Kor.

Hrm, perhaps a mix of the three? Keeping some as background, overarcing long term events to ground things, with initial easy to grasp sparks to start things off. At least two of the group, the (bow legged?) tracker and the tall N'luss could be familiar with Yan Korani customs and people which could be another hook.

So perhaps a patron, with ties to clan and perhaps military unit and/or building a temple. Said patron has other goals as well, naturally, and then the slaves take an opportunity just as the party realizes they're there for more than just their clan.

[bert]

Blowing my own trumpet here, (and if I don't blow it myself no other bugger is going to blow it for me), have a look at

homepage.ntlworld.com/barry.blatt/festival.htm

The Pcs have all heard of the great Kevuk Championship and make their own way there either independently as tourists or to take part or under contract to the High Pinnacle to get their errant son back.

Or howzabout -

www.tekumel.com/gaming_advCC.html

The theives bit of the Lost Seal might work, or the Fakers and the Temple of Thumis might want them to release their Parchment Beetles for them.

As a final toot, hopefully I will have a full blown more or less ready to play scenario in the next issue of Visitations of Glory, the online fanzine (and full of lots of other scenarios and stuff)

www.tekumel.com/vog.html

and while you are in the archives this, from the old Eye of All-Seeing Wonder might help

www.tekumel.com/eoasw3_06.html

IMO it is easier on the GM if you limit the players to certain religions/clans; scenarios will arise organically from interclan conflict and temple missions and have a less contrived feel about them.

[casey777]

You run a good site. I hadn't seen all of those before.

bert said:

www.tekumel.com/eoasw3_06.html

IMO it is easier on the GM if you limit the players to certain religions/clans; scenarios will arise organically from interclan conflict and temple missions and have a less contrived feel about them.

Hello, I think I just found the spark for the next arc in my campaign! It was heading down that way already, this kicks it into overdrive.

Agreed, I started with all the PCs being from or tied to a middle of the road, middle level, middle management type non-fanatical Stability worshiping clan, Golden Sapphire, for that very reason. Not too far from what the players are used to in real life and in gaming. They're not nobles but they're not basket weavers or tomb guards or latrine cleaners either.

Golden Sapphires are ambitious though and have (both friendly and hostile) ties with other clans in the region, either through similar tastes or similar areas of profit and profession. I also tied them with a local legion who naturally has rivalries with several similar and/or local legions who'd all served up north near the border with Yan Kor.

From that mix conflict and adventure organically arose, esp. once the PCs started doing what PCs do!

[doc]

My favorite part of running EPT is definitely watching the players experimenting with the Eyes. It kinda reminds me of the whole Head of Vecna scenario from KotDT. Seriously, I nearly passed out from laughing.

Doc

[bigjackbrass]

doc said:

My favorite part of running EPT is definitely watching the players experimenting with the Eyes.

It's especially good when the player tries to use real-world "out of character" knowledge and apply it to trying to work out just what an "Eye" does. Which is how one of my players froze his character by using an "Eye" as a hand-grenade...

[casey777]

doc said:

My favorite part of running EPT is definitely watching the players experimenting with the Eyes. It kinda reminds me of the whole Head of Vecna scenario from KotDT. Seriously, I nearly passed out from laughing.

Yep! I tend to treat them akin to Gamma World artifacts, each are rather unique even among classifications. May work, may not, result may be totally different and so forth.

Also have made up new Eyes.

There's a chart or two online and/or in an early Dragon (TSR?) issue. I have some versions typed up but not handy.