You, too, CAN run Empire of the Petal Throne

[kent]

Aug 7, 2011 14:36:47 GMT -6 badger2305 said:

As a last note, it is worth noting that when Prof. Barker first started, he used EPT as the framework for introducing Tekumel, and only over time as players build up their own sense of how things worked, did the rules change. The changes made over time were responses to what was supposed to be a "fun" way to play, not necessarily anything else.

Thanks.

Ah. I was getting the impression from vague hints here and there that EPT as a rule system was written as an introduction to Tekumel for *other gametables* and that *he himself* did not use mechanics remotely like D&D or in EPT.

A final brief question for clarity. Did his game mechanics & rules then evolve from EPT into what became Swords & Glory II or at *his table* did his mechanics go in some other direction and Swords & Glory II was for *other gametables*?

[badger2305]

Aug 7, 2011 16:01:30 GMT -6 kent said:

Ah. I was getting the impression from vague hints here and there that EPT as a rule system was written as an introduction to Tekumel for *other gametables* and that *he himself* did not use mechanics remotely like D&D or in EPT.

A final brief question for clarity. Did his game mechanics & rules then evolve from EPT into what became Swords & Glory II or at *his table* did his mechanics go in some other direction and Swords & Glory II was for *other gametables*?

Just to be clear, the game rules that Prof. Barker used to introduce players to Tekumel back in 1975 were very very similar to the published Empire of the Petal Throne rules. Afterwards, based on the experience gained from his two gaming groups - the Thursday Night Group and the somewhat less-known "Tuesday Night Group" (there was some overlap in membership between the two over time) - he went on the develop Swords & Glory, later Gardasiyal. But aside from the presentation of the rules themselves, Prof. Barker's own refereeing style moved gradually over time to "roll some dice" (low good/high bad). So it's not as though there was a lot of "structured" consideration given collectively to these changes - it was more organic and evolutionary, with use of rules to help explain or resolve things when it was deemed necessary.

Clear as mud?

[badger2305]

Part Five - The BIG Picture View of Things

By this time, you've had a chance to look at the background material, consider the "life course" of the average player-character, and have had a look at the kinds of non-humans that inhabit parts of Tékumel. Let's now step back from that "player-centric" and look at another grand resource available to you: the maps of Tékumel and Jakálla:

• Eastern Map: depicts Tsolyánu, Yán Kor, various smaller states, and the western edge of Salarvyá, as well as the northern seas and the Deeps of Chanayága and Háida Pakála.
  
• Western Map: depicts Mu'ugalavyá, Livyánu, Shényu, various smaller states, as well as the Tsoléi Isles.
  
• Map of Jakálla: this depicts the City Half As Old As the World, and the assumed initial locale for the start of your campaign.

Of these three maps, we'll start with the first two. Again, the mistake some beginning EPT referees make is to assume they have to figure out everything about all of these foreign lands, as well as Tsolyánu before they can begin running their campaign. There's actually a much easier approach to take, as I will detail below.

But for right now, take a moment to look at the large area maps. In each of the Five Empires, you have lots of geographic features, as well as cities, towns, and the rivers and ever-present Sákbe roads which connect them. Don't get too wrapped up in detail, but for right now, let's just remember that there are places of mystery in many locales:

Sec. 1200. The Underworld
Scattered over Tékumel are innumerable half-buried, half-forgotten ruins. There are fragments dating back to the prehuman ages, when the Ssu and the Hlyss vied with one another for control; there are tunnels of melted rock and steel constructed during the days of man's first glory; there are jumbled heaps destroyed by the cataclysms which rent Tékumel when the planet was cast into outer dimensional darkness; there are catacombs and subterranean labyrinths dating from more recent empires, cities, temples, pyramids, and fortresses dedicated to the lost and unremembered gods of half a hundred kingdoms. (pp. 64-65)

The semantic meaning of this quote, carefully reduced down to its basic essence, is simple: This place is bursting at the seams with adventure opportunities. By itself, this can be pretty overwhelming: I'm supposed to come up with megadungeons all over?? I can't do that! Ah, but to start with, that is unnecessary. As I mentioned in the first Resource Interlude, "you can impart a great deal of flavor just by making connections between places, people and things." We'll use this insight to begin building your campaign.

I'll digress for a moment. One of the really fun aspects of setting up a D&D campaign is figuring out where important NPCs - particularly villains - are located, what resources they have, etc. Besides that, there are various miscellaneous magical items and artifacts that need to be placed in various locations, hidden away in long-lost locales, guarded by insidious traps and fearsome watchers. EPT is no different. Besides treasure, EPT provides a wide range of magical items:

• "Eyes": these items are analogous to staves and wands, and are -for our purposes - relatively common.
  
• Scrolls and Amulets: these items range from fairly common to quite rare.
  
• Magical Weapons and Armor: useful and relatively common - though it is possible to create some very unusual swords and similar weapons with the charts as presented.
  
• Magical Books: in a world like Tékumel, is it any wonder that ancient tomes in half-forgotten scripts are uncommon and often quite valuable?
  
• Miscellaneous Magical Items: these are VERY RARE, often one-of-a-kind items, often quite powerful. It is these items and the books which are of immediate interest to us.

The immediate task is to begin figuring out where various items are located. Fortunately, Prof. Barker has provided you with some notations about that as part of the descriptions of the items themselves, e.g. one of the Clockwork Automatons of Qiyor is "in the hands of the Mu'ugalavyani" while one of reputedly fifteen Mallets of Inimitable Fealty is possessed by "a senior noble of the Royalist Party." With such clues as a starting point, begin to locate various items, using the lists of Miscellaneous Magical Items and Magical Books as your guide, and the maps to provide locations of places of mystery.

Once you have your list of items and where they are located, you can add more detail by answering the reporter's "W's" about each one: What is the item? Where is it located? Who possesses it (if anyone)? When was it placed there? Why? and so forth. Your answers only need to be a line or two, but they become seeds for much more elaborate adventures:

The Mighty Wall of Thumis #3 of 7: stolen by priests of the Temple of Wuru after the Fall of Ganga, and placed in a now-lost crypt under the city of Pijnar, guarded by undead. A scroll kept in the Great Library of Tumissa, written in Classical Tsolyani, records the placement. Lord Fu Shi'i would pay a great deal for this item.

The number of items is sufficiently small, and the range of potential locales sufficiently large, that you ought to have lots of possible related adventures detailed fairly quickly - especially if you add in current events to complicate matters. For example, how might the potential war between Tsolyanu and Yan Kor affect access to the Mighty Wall of Thumis, as it is deep under the capital of Pjiena, soon to be threatened by the legions of Baron Ald? What about other potential interested parties? Are there unknown guardians? What if the entire matter is a false front, leading to an entirely different secret? Of such things are adventures and campaigns made.

By building this up through some careful distribution, you avoid having to construct Underworlds willy-nilly, and instead can allow the interests of the player-characters provide you with ample notice of when you need to plan out the "hidden depths" of your campaign.

Next time: Part Six - Looking a little more closely

[badger2305]

Part Six - Looking a little more closely

By this stage, you've started distributing magical items to various locations. It's worthwhile to remember that not ALL of them need to be placed somewhere on the maps of the Five Empires: there are various other locations on Tékumel where they might go, e.g. the City of the Red Tiled Roofs, home of the iniquitous Vriyágga, or the Secret City of Schyák in N'lyss. You may also want to keep some items "undiscovered" for potential later discovery or random distribution. Since Underworlds are often associated with cities, however, it is a good idea to take a closer look at the various towns and cities depicted on the maps. In particular, size and age are important factors to consider, remembering the custom of Ditlána, in which cities are rebuilt every 500 years. We can look at Tsolyánu and classify cities and towns accordingly:

Metropolis	Jakálla, Tumíssa, Khirgár, Púrdimal, Béy Sy
City	Thráya, Fasíltum, Sokátis
Small city	Butrís, Tléku, Úrmish

...and so on (the rest is left as an exercise for the aspiring referee).

Larger cities and towns may be expected to have larger Underworlds as a result of their size. Age is another factor to consider. Tsámra is the oldest city mentioned (pg. 3), with Jakálla a close second (pg. 4). Fasíltum is of great antiquity, along with now-lost Purdánim. With these factors in mind, it is possible to imagine the ebbs and flows of trade and commerce, potential important historical sites, and adventure possibilities. (There is no particular need to become overly involved with imaginary demographics and the like, however.)

Using the material in Empire of the Petal Throne and particularly the map of Jakálla, we can fairly easily predict the elements common to every metropolis, city and major town in Tsolyánu. Each will have the following:

• Walls and fortifications of some sort
  
• The Governor's Palace (pg. 113), often within its own citadel.
  
• The four branches of the Imperial government: The Palace of the Realm, the Palace of Ever-Glorious War, the Palace of the Priesthoods, and the Palace of Foreign Lands; each will be sized according to its relative necessity and importance (pg. 39)
  
• City guard barracks (pg. 113)
  
• Temples and shrines to the gods; size and relative importance of each governed by the surrounding urban history and culture. (pg. 113)
  
• A Foreigners Quarter; size and population governed by location and size of the overall urban conglomeration. In the Foreigners Quarter there will be markets, hostels and guest houses (pp. 37, 113-114)
  
• A Necropolis or City of the Dead (pg. 114)
  
• An Imperial slave market (pg. 38)
  
• A Hirilákte arena (pg. 8)
  
• Clan houses and clan-based businesses (pg. 113)
  
• Sákbe roads forming connections with other cities and towns (pg. 7)
  
• An Underworld of some sort (pg. 65)

Additional likely elements include Imperial legion barracks, harbors, secondary roads linking outlying villages, etc. As a new referee, you can use the above list as a framework for developing any city or town. Again, the trick lies not in doing this for every city and town, but instead using adventures and events in your campaign be a guide for where to focus your efforts.

While sketch maps of cities are often seen as necessary, this is not really the case - indeed, the Tsolyáni do not have the concept of "mapping," instead preferring "pictures" of a place, with elements emphasized according to their importance, or abstract depictions similar to medieval or ancient guidebooks, such as a periplus or itinerarium. The cover of the original Empire of the Petal Throne box, for example, shows the city of Béy Sy (not Jakálla, as some have surmised in the past). Simply keep track of the relative location of different city places, and their important details.

Next time: Part Seven - Going Underground

[badger2305]

I'm curious if there are specific questions about any of this, as I've laid it out so far. I've attempted to stay away from the more esoteric cultural elements of Tékumel as a setting up until this point, mostly because it is easier for a beginning referee to concentrate on various elements of the game and the structural pieces necessary to running it.

My plan for the rest of this is as follows:

• Part Seven - Going Underground
  
• Part Eight - Developing "Scenarios"
  
• Part Nine - Things that make Tékumel unique
  
• Part Ten - Putting it all together
  

Does this make sense?

[greentongue]

So far the level of intimidation is still acceptably low.
=

[aldarron]

Makes sense to me. Might be good to have one or two explanatory posts about a few of the more unfamiliar (from a D&D standpoint) rules in EPT too.

[badger2305]

Aug 10, 2011 19:58:56 GMT -6 aldarron said:

Makes sense to me. Might be good to have one or two explanatory posts about a few of the more unfamiliar (from a D&D standpoint) rules in EPT too.

Good idea! Help me out here - which ones were you thinking of? I'm so close to the rules in my own head that I might have a hard time coming up with examples.

[ckutalik]

Aug 10, 2011 20:18:56 GMT -6 badger2305 said:

Aug 10, 2011 19:58:56 GMT -6 aldarron said:

Makes sense to me. Might be good to have one or two explanatory posts about a few of the more unfamiliar (from a D&D standpoint) rules in EPT too.

Good idea! Help me out here - which ones were you thinking of? I'm so close to the rules in my own head that I might have a hard time coming up with examples.

This has been something on my mind as I have tried to talk through the scattered small differences between OD&D and EPT with old school D&Ders in our Google Plus games.

A few that come to mind: skills (especially the class-specific ones), bonus spells (how you gain them in particular), spell failure, differences in combat rules, and divine intervention.

[badger2305]

Resource Interlude

Today's offering is pretty straightforward: an examination of the role of the Gods in Tékumel, along with a listing of the various mentions of other deities and their relevance to game play.

Attachments:

[crusssdaddy]

Wanted to get Book of Ebon Bindings based on the recommendations on this thread, but just heard back from Tita's House of Games that the last one got scooped up 3 weeks ago and there are no current plans for a new printing.

Going to have to gaze longingly at the demonic powers summary I just downloaded and work up the courage to drop $40 on Amazon for a used copy.

[badger2305]

Aug 11, 2011 10:01:56 GMT -6 crusssdaddy said:

Wanted to get Book of Ebon Bindings based on the recommendations on this thread, but just heard back from Tita's House of Games that the last one got scooped up 3 weeks ago and there are no current plans for a new printing.

Going to have to gaze longingly at the demonic powers summary I just downloaded and work up the courage to drop $40 on Amazon for a used copy.

I understand. Right now the Tekumel Foundation is in the process of figuring out how best to make Tekumel materials available. There have been a dozen different producers of material over the years and its all in need of revision. Don't worry though - BOEB will be back in print soon.

[Deleted]

Aug 10, 2011 11:07:30 GMT -6 badger2305 said:

Does this make sense?

These posts are awesome. Please tell me you'll compile them into a single document at the end?

[badger2305]

Aug 11, 2011 12:32:39 GMT -6 @widderslainte said:

Aug 10, 2011 11:07:30 GMT -6 badger2305 said:

Does this make sense?

These posts are awesome. Please tell me you'll compile them into a single document at the end?

That's the plan.

[kent]

Aug 10, 2011 11:07:30 GMT -6 badger2305 said:

I've attempted to stay away from the more esoteric cultural elements of Tékumel as a setting up until this point, mostly because it is easier for a beginning referee to concentrate on various elements of the game and the structural pieces necessary to running it.

I would bear in mind that your posts here have a wider appeal than aiding a 'beginning referee' to give Tekumel a run.

Aside from your target audience of experienced DMs hesitant to bring EPT to their gametable there are DMs like me who are experienced, who are somewhat acquainted with Tekumal from several readings but who will never run it because we always run our own material. Barker's world is no less fascinating to me because I won't run it. Quite simply, Barker's material is thoroughly enjoyable to read and your elucidation as a gamer at his table, by selection and emphasis serves to lift a veil.

As Im reading through EPT I amazed how dense the information is in the section 200 The World of Tekumel (pp. 8-14 DW ed.). The section answers many basic questions that might occur to someone reading his other works in the equivalent of about 20 pages of a novel and acts as a great starting point for further delving in Sword & Glory I. In a first reading of EPT that section should be read five times.

[kent]

A few questions:

Who was the artist for the cover of EPT DW 1987?

==

Chlen-hide is harder than bronze and softer than iron but what does it look like when smashed with a blunt object? Does it buckle/dent like metal or split/fragment/shatter?

Armour is said to 'project fantastically in curious designs'

Was Barker aware that these designs would only act to guide wayward weapons down onto the skull or shoulders of the wearer of such armour. The purpose of sheet armour being to turn a telling blow into a glancing one not to catch the weight of inaccurate blows. In many illustrations of Tsolyani soldiers we see similarly impractical (ceremonial) weapons used in fighting. Reading Gygax' article on polearms in Unearthed Arcana we learn that each curve of blade and prong evolved for a precise purpose. Was Barker attracted to wavy blades and polearms for aesthetic reasons?

==

There is a rumour that horses may survive on a zoological preserve on some island in Tekumel. On steedless Tekumel that could lead to some very rewarding adventures. Is there any evidence that Barker made this rumour true in his own campaign?

====
====

[Victor addressed these questions up on the stickied 'General Information about EPT' thread.]

[badger2305]

Part Seven – Going Underground

Empire of the Petal Throne assumes that the aspiring referee is already somewhat familiar with the concept of D&D “dungeons” but departs from that general idea in three fairly important ways: scale, content, and activity.

Scale: regarding scale, “Underworlds” – as they are termed in EPT – are assumed to be larger than their D&D counterparts. For example, the first level of the Jakállan Underworld is drawn on a 17” x 22” sheet of graph paper, 10 squares to the inch – and each square is ten feet in measure(!). Thus it is assumed to cover an area roughly 1700 feet by 2200 feet – almost 1/3rd by 1/2 a mile in size, centered largely under the ruined Temple of Hyáshra in the City of the Dead. If you consider the map of Jakálla, each hex has been said by Prof. Barker to be 50-100 yards across. To be fair, Prof. Barker has also said that the map is “semi-representational,” i.e. more important buildings appear larger on the map than they really are. Even so, the top layer of the Jakállan Underworld would require several 17x22 sheets to cover the entire city. This suggests that it would be difficult to actually map the entire Underworld – and for reasons to be covered later, mapping that much is actually not necessary.

Content: in addition to the issue of scale, content must also be considered. Underworlds in EPT are not really random creations – they have a purpose and place in the world. As a result, we can divide underworld areas into three sorts:

• so-called “Saturday Night Specials” - there are a number of these listed in the rulebook: the River of Silence, the Garden of Weeping Snows, the Tomb of Mnekshétra, and so on.
  
• Areas constructed and sometimes maintained for specific uses; one such is the Temple of Sárku, given as an illustrative example (pg. 101). Other examples include “shrines….tunnels from the ancient pre-cataclysm underground transport system…labyrinths…dimensional nexus points…treasure rooms, hidden magical libraries…tombs of ancient kings…” (pp. 101-102) – all of which may not be as extensive as the “Specials” but are still more than random jumbled spaces.
  
• Remaining areas, which can be empty or randomly populated.

This is not all that different from OD&D, especially when it comes to the “Specials.” Inclusion of these, along with the others also listed, can provide points of continuity between campaigns – but you are always free to make your own list of “special sites.”

Activity: Underworlds in Tékumel are also notable for being in active use, due partly to the custom of Ditlána, and also to the predilection of the temples and others to make use of Underworlds as places for secret storage, gatherings, and intrigue. Thus, one may encounter people and activities not that far away from ancient terrible guardians; in fact, one may serve the other, or vice versa!

[badger2305]

Part Seven - Going Underground (continued)

Because of all of this, Underworlds are much more “purpose-driven” than your typical D&D dungeon:

“It is much more realistic and desireable to have an Underworld developed upon logical, “scenario” lines, with large complexes of tombs, temples, or other contents carefully worked out.” (pg. 102) (please note the emphasis – we will examine that term more closely later!)

All of this can make the entire approach to building an Underworld a very daunting task! Not to worry – there are some basic factors to keep in mind that make this exercise much easier.

Layering. Each and every Underworld is multi-layered – but those layers have an overall structure. Every five hundred years – give or take a century – cities are torn down and rebuilt. This means that we can build a somewhat abstract map of any Underworld, based on historical epoch:

• Cellars, sewers and tunnels
  
• I. Recent Era
  - Most recent Ditlána – for Jakálla, this would be 1850 A.S. or earlier
  - “Classical” Tsolyáni – somewhere during the first few centuries of the Second Imperium
  - Interregnum – Time of legendary heroes and wizards
  
• II. Engsvanyali Era
  - Late Engsvanyáli – The Golden Age, marked by artistic and scientific advancement
  - Middle Engsvanyáli – The Golden Age, development of the arts of sorcery
  - Early Engsvanyáli – Transition from the Bednálljan era; discovery of the “Good” Gods
  
• III. Bednálljan Era
  - Late First Imperium – Development of literature, art and culture – under warlike autocratic rule
  - Early or Middle First Imperium – Time of Queen Nayári and her non-human servitors
  - Fisherman Kings – Contact made with Lord Ksárul
  
• IV. Ancient Eras
  - Dragon Warriors – Contact made with Lord Vimúhla and (some) of the other “Evil” Gods.
  - Three States of the Triangle (in southern and central Tsolyánu) – battled the Chyrstálli and the Mihálli
  - Llyáni Empire – little if anything known
  
• V. Time of Darkness
  - Time of Darkness – breakdown of sparefaring civilization; growing barbarism
  - Pre-Time of Darkness – incredibly powerful technology, almost all of it incomprehensible
  

…so between scale and era, any Underworld can be potentially a vast undertaking. The ancient Temple of Vimúhla under Jakálla may date to the time of the Dragon Warriors – and thus also its relative depth – and the same might be said for the “revolving rooms of King Ssirandár I” which by implication are from the Bednálljan Era. Some cities and town may have only some of the eras listed, or they might end up laterally displaced from one another, instead of on top and underneath. Additionally, use each historical era to provide markers and signposts for potential explorers, e.g. the delicate and graceful script of the Engsvanyáli era is different from the jag-edged characters found in Ancient Bednálljan (see pages 5 and 93 for examples).

Conceptually map this all out by using separate sheets of paper for each layer, blocking out the relative locations of each major feature under the city. This should be done on a larger scale than a typical dungeon map - something where you can fit the entire city on a single sheet of paper. Remember, this isn't a precision map, it is intended to develop a larger sense of how major locations are spatially related to one another. With the above list of historical eras, you can use five or six sheets for the layered sketch of the Underworld - again, not unlike the cut-away view suggested for dungeon development in D&D. Once you have the general outline in place, then and ONLY then should you begin drawing on a sheet of graph paper.

Saturday Night Specials: Make use of the “Saturday Night Specials” and their relative location to make Underworld construction easier. Mark the location of a “Saturday Night Special” as the main feature of your map, and then map around that feature with other rooms, passages, inhabited and otherwise. Once this is done, you can include the potential connections to other features elsewhere in the Underworld. This might seem somewhat disjointed, but it is not all that different from suggestions made for Greyhawk and other D&D mega-dungeons, where there might be stairs and passages providing direct access to lower levels for parties not wishing to bother with the first level of the dungeon. It may very well be the case that you might not have mapped in a direction the players wish to go; in such a circumstance, you can map “on the fly” using random “dungeon” generation methods, or simply have a conveniently caved-in tunnel or room, courtesy of the secretive priests of the Temple of Ksárul or other Underworld denizen, blocking further travel in the direction inconveniently chosen.

Don't forget about special magical items: Remember all those miscellaneous magical items and books from previous posts? You can now take the ones you've allocated to the Underworld in question, and place them in specific locations. Each item does not have to be associated with a "Saturday Night Special" - indeed, there may be highly valuable items sitting unguarded in a long-forgotten location, waiting for the right person to come along (but such things ought to be rare).

You may decide that the method suggested above is too much trouble, and instead you will make a concession to “game Tékumel” by reducing the size of your Underworld to something more manageable. From the perspective of your players, any differences between the two methods might go unnoticed – especially if you ensure that they are often pursued by creatures such as the Ssú, who are far more comfortable with the Stygian depths of the Underworld than they are.

[Melan]

This is a very useful thread. Thank you. I am actually preparing to relaunch a mainly city-based campaign I first started in 2009 but had to end after three sessions as the players moved out of town; it draws inspiration from EPT among other things.

I am currently following a conservative course of action in creating the Undercity. In my previous big city project, Khosura, I mapped the entirety of it, and it was sometimes impractical to run and sometimes stretched too thin - in a city much smaller than Jakkalá! Now, I am going with an idea similar to the one you outlined: I first think about the footprints / underground "presence" of major landmarks, then about their representation, and a related collection of sites. The approach will also be more modular - instead of one large network with a lot of empty space, there will be a collection of (usually themed) sub-complexes - so, a lot of the first two categories you mention, and relatively less of the last. Some of the actual vastness will be missing from the game, and the places the characters visit will not be implied to be the "totality" of the Underworld in the city, but only a part, but I think it will work better for my players, and make my work easier. And of course, nobody can say if the characters will not later find connections between sections they considered isolated from each other - through a lower level or what have you.

Another angle I am working into the campaign materials is the city fabric as an active part of the adventure instead of just a backdrop or a place for a series of encounters - which is also something that may be relevant for EPT. A lot of the cities are implied to be dangerous, dreadful slums full of crime and treachery; there are a lot of opportunities for above-ground "dungeoneering", including fantastic locales, monsters and personalities. If you are looking for a way to limit yourself, the physical and social limits placed on the Foreigner's Quarter (or even its subdivisions!) may serve well here.

Finally, I ought to mention that Baz Blatt's articles in Fight On! are a great source of newbie-friendly and adventure-oriented material (e.g. the helpful guidelines for playing the alien races, but also his adventures), and should be interesting for someone looking to start a campaign from scratch, and getting too deep into the "culture-gaming" aspect of the setting.

[thorswulf]

Here are my answers for Kent. Thay are accurate as I know them

1. M.A.R. Barker did the cover artwork, I believe.

2. Tekumel armor is ment to snag and catch weapons, slow down impact and reduce damage, just like real armor. There was an excellent article in an old Imperial Courier where this was discussed. The snags, barbs, and jagged edges of weapons are designed to catch and tear, and deliver more of an Asian style draw cut. As far as chlen hide armor being damaged, military armor is standardized and easily replaced by a legion armory I would imagine.

3. YES they found the horses! This comes from a conversation between an old employer of mine and the gent who used to run Barker's broducts out of University Station. they were very hard to find, so put them where you want to!

[kent]

Thanks Thorswulf!

[badger2305]

Aug 14, 2011 15:05:26 GMT -6 Melan said:

Some of the actual vastness will be missing from the game, and the places the characters visit will not be implied to be the "totality" of the Underworld in the city, but only a part, but I think it will work better for my players, and make my work easier. And of course, nobody can say if the characters will not later find connections between sections they considered isolated from each other - through a lower level or what have you.

Yes, quite so! In Empire of the Petal Throne, there will always be vast areas left unexplored by players in the Underworlds beneath cities - and this ought to be clear from their first outing. One of the more insightful (and somewhat unsettling) realizations I had was that in Tekumel, Underworlds are actively being modified and changed all the time. Having a set map, therefore, is more like a "snapshot" in time of what an Underworld is like.

Another angle I am working into the campaign materials is the city fabric as an active part of the adventure instead of just a backdrop or a place for a series of encounters - which is also something that may be relevant for EPT. A lot of the cities are implied to be dangerous, dreadful slums full of crime and treachery; there are a lot of opportunities for above-ground "dungeoneering", including fantastic locales, monsters and personalities. If you are looking for a way to limit yourself, the physical and social limits placed on the Foreigner's Quarter (or even its subdivisions!) may serve well here.

Exactly so. Cities in Tekumel are themselves places for adventure and the Foreigners' Quarters are specifically set up for that. You have rich and poor cheek-by-jowl, with different races and nationalities all maintaining a precarious peace while the surrounding Tsolyani society regards everyone within the Quarter as suspicious and requiring guards.

Finally, I ought to mention that Baz Blatt's articles in Fight On! are a great source of newbie-friendly and adventure-oriented material (e.g. the helpful guidelines for playing the alien races, but also his adventures), and should be interesting for someone looking to start a campaign from scratch, and getting too deep into the "culture-gaming" aspect of the setting.

While I would normally agree with your recommendation, I've come to the conclusion that all such additional material - Sourcebook, adventures, etc. - are really not that useful until people get a grip on just the material in EPT. Once someone has done that, then going on to get other stuff would help.

As for Baz Blatt's stuff, I have to admit to being of two minds about it specifically. He's done a very good job at summarizing some of the source material written by Prof. Barker, and he's gone on to include some of his own ideas - exactly what I'm suggesting everyone should do. But it doesn't "click" for me in my Tekumel. To borrow a somewhat inexact analogy from The Book of Ebon Bindings, I appreciate the essence of Baz Blatt's work, while the substance is not as pleasing to me. Let me stress that this is entirely my own opinion, and that you should make use of whatever you want to in your own game. In fact, you should ignore my opinion - and Baz's - and make up your own stuff. ;D

[badger2305]

I've just taken the time to put together all of my previous posts into a single document. Combined with the Resource Interlude material, it's over 20 pages so far. My goodness! We'll see how long it is when I get done.

[Baron]

Looking forward to it! I *almost* got a Tekumel game off the ground once, although RL got in the way and conspired to kill it. Hoping this will inspire me to try again!

[ckutalik]

Aug 15, 2011 8:21:53 GMT -6 badger2305 said:

I've just taken the time to put together all of my previous posts into a single document. Combined with the Resource Interlude material, it's over 20 pages so far. My goodness! We'll see how long it is when I get done.

That's great news--and whew with the length--it would definitely be off help for first-time EPT refs like myself.

[badger2305]

Resource Interlude

Today's offering is both simple and complex. Simple in that all I've done is pull together some information regarding an oft-overlooked subject: clans and their meaning in Tekumel. Complex from a cultural perspective, clans play a big role in Tsolyani society.

Enjoy!

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[aldarron]

Aug 11, 2011 7:49:39 GMT -6 badger2305 said:

Resource Interlude

Today's offering is pretty straightforward: an examination of the role of the Gods in Tékumel, along with a listing of the various mentions of other deities and their relevance to game play.

Might be useful to have a paragraph in there about what the gods are. I mean, are they gods in the traditional sense as we and presumably the Tekumel (ites? en? i?) understand them, or are they dimensional beings of some sort (like old ones or star trek "Q" or whatever)? Tekumel being a far future world originally settled by space travel would beg to have the divine nature have some natural explanation.

[geoffrey]

I seem to remember that Pavar addressed that question, and basically said that regardless of the unfathomable (to humanity) nature of the gods, their power is for all intents and purposes limitless. Therefore, it makes sense to worship and serve them, regardless of what the gods "really" are.

[badger2305]

Aug 17, 2011 8:33:11 GMT -6 aldarron said:

Might be useful to have a paragraph in there about what the gods are. I mean, are they gods in the traditional sense as we and presumably the Tekumel (ites? en? i?) understand them, or are they dimensional beings of some sort (like old ones or star trek "Q" or whatever)? Tekumel being a far future world originally settled by space travel would beg to have the divine nature have some natural explanation.

I see what you mean. Even so, this is where the "sword and planet" aspect of Tekumel comes to the fore. Prof. Barker's text in Empire of the Petal Throne remains tantalizingly unclear - and it seems to be intentional:

Whether the Gods are real or whether they are simply powerful and inscrutable beings from some other dimension is not known... (page 4)

and

Once again contact had been made with other dimensional beings, this time with a veritable heirarchy of what may be termed "Gods," and again with several less-powerful beings called "the Cohorts." The priest, called Pavar, discovered means of communicating with these semi-divine beings and codified his findings into the religion which is still practiced throughout Tsolyanu, and in modified form in many other lands. (page 4)

What seems clear to me from reading this is that for the purposes of EPT, the "Gods" and "Cohorts" are treated as divine beings, whatever their ultimate nature. There is more detail in other source materials for Tekumel, but they are in accord with the position taken above, no matter how ambiguous. With that in mind, I decided to not take a position within my excursus, letting the above material stand as it is.

[badger2305]

Resource Interlude

This is the first half of the PDF file I put together with some speculative notes towards your own Jakallan Underworld. I will do the second half in another post.

FWIW, aside from the listing of various places, none of this is "canonical" - I'm simply using what's in EPT to act as a guide for further creative work as referee for my own campaign.

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