Empire of the Petal Throne?

[korgoth]

Howdy, y'all. Has anybody had any experience with the old TSR "Empire of the Petal Throne"? I have never played in Tekumel but I'm aware of the many web-based resources for it. I was wondering what the game itself was like, and how similar the rules were to OD&D, etc.

Also, was it meant as a supplement for OD&D, or was it a stand-alone?

[calithena]

Stand alone. I ran it last year at UCon, it was pretty fun.

Combat plays a lot like D&D but it's even crazier because of the very powerful spells and the fact that damage goes up with level differentials a lot of the time (a high level PC is doing triple damage to low level ones on every hit), and some monsters do more damage too.

It's a solid design though. d100 stats is the main difference from D&D. The double damage on natural 20 rule is also in there.

[thorswulf]

Characters are a lttle different when it comes to skills and spells too. EPT actually had the first system to give characters skills as part of their background. As you progressed in levels you had a chance to accquire more too. Spells were the same for priests and magic users, but their own professional skills are what gave them some of their magical powers. Their are two kinds of skills, original work-a-day skills and professional skills that you gain from your class. Spells were not guaranteed to be learned between levels, you had to roll to see if you got any kind of new spell, or spells.

EPT was also the first rpg to allow different races with more hit dice to be played as characters. Some had as much as 3d6 for initial hit points.

[Finarvyn]

I'd second (or third, or whatever) the comments made by calithena and thorswulf.

Great game, definite stand-alone but clearly influenced by OD&D. As was mentioned before, the skills and magic systems are somewhat complex and different from OD&D, but many of the other aspects (classes, hit dice, armour class, etc) are pretty much by-the-book OD&D. EPT also has an interesting blend of magic and technology items, which gives it a somewhat unique flavor. Very in-depth history and language development, which reminded me a little of the type of material produced by Tolkien (in content, not in atmosphere). I found the races somewhat bizarre, however, and this made it harder for me to get "into" an EPT campaign.

The newest version of EPT (by the late Guardians of Order company) was based on Tri-Stat and is a decent enough product but just doesn't have the same feel as the TSR original.

Great game overall. I'd highly reccommend it as a great resource and example of campaign design.

[thorswulf]

I you want a good source of background, the tri stat rulebook is pretty good. Not the same atmosphere as EPT, but it does allow for a campaign that is more cinematic, or mundane Tekumel. Actually, I'd recommend any of the Tekumel sourcebooks too. These are a great example of what every campaign should aspire to be over one's lifetime. The Book of Ebon Bindings is particularly good as a sourcebook on demonology in a fantasy campaign.

[grodog]

I've never played EPT, and if I wanted to run one, I'm not sure exactly where I'd go to get started. I know know that JG published an EPT module(s?) at some point, and that Carl @ Tita's House of Games has stuff. What would folks recommend outside of the EPT box set, and Barker's novels (I have one of them, the 2nd I think)?

[thorswulf]

Check out www.tekumel.com. They have a lot of free resources for several editions of the game, and have great general info. They also have some free rules posted.

[Deleted]

I had a friend with a boxed set once. We played a couple times and it was okay, I guess. Nice maps. Strange monsters. This guy was a language freak and loved to write with those crazy letters, but I just found them odd.

[philotomy]

It sounds pretty interesting. I've decided to order the reprint of the original rules from Tita's House of Games.

[korgoth]

philotomy said:

It sounds pretty interesting. I've decided to order the reprint of the original rules from Tita's House of Games.

I'm tempted, too. I was thinking of getting it for my birthday (Patriot Day!). But then I think things like "For that kind of money I could get 3 StuG III Gs for FOW."

Hobbies. Oy.

[thorswulf]

Another option is to get the PDF from drivethrurpg.com. I think I paid $10.00 for it. Cheaper than a hard copy, but not as nice as the hard copy either. My original is hurting from age and use, so I figured a back up was in order. They also have the Best of the tekumel Journals as PDF's. I recommend these highly!

[calithena]

Gro -

If you don't care about game details, the best sources on Tekumel are the three Swords & Glory sourcebooks, the first two available in DW or Tita's House of Games printings and the third printed by Tita's only. These give a great overview of the setting. I have the first two (DW versions) for sale if you want to buy them - I'd send for $20 plus shipping, PM me if interested.

If you want a Tekumel game, original EPT remains the best RPG published for a Tekumel setting IMO. Others try to do more but succeed in doing less (though there are great new spells and items in the later rulesets).

If you want the best color-supplement in the history of RPGs, the Book of Ebon Bindings is waiting...

[thorswulf]

Yeah, waiting to rip you to shreds! Some of those things are just awful! Of course a "good" follower of any god in Tekumel may end up sacrificing a human being as part of his or her religion. Tekumel morality is not like the world we live in today. It has more to do with the Aztec religions, Chinese beuracracy, and Byzantine politics all wrapped into one big, and very different world. I think that the non-western atmosphere is why I fell in love with the world. it challenges you to think outside of medieval culture.

[oldgeezer]

dilvish said:

This guy was a language freak and loved to write with those crazy letters, but I just found them odd.

Like, oh, say, Arabic?

"This guy" is a professor of linguistics, so it's no surprise languages show up in his game.

Sort of like old Tollers and his love affair with ancient Finnish.

[Rhuvein]

I played in an online (PBC) EPT/Tekumel game the year before last and while it was very enjoyable, it was quite slow paced.

The GM did a great job getting the atmosphere across, but the action was too slow for me. I felt it needed more combat. I had come in on a game that was already in progress and I think the other players preferred the role playing and drama rather than combat.

I've got the original game on PDF and would like to try DM'ing it sometime.

[greentongue]

Having fond memories of the TSR version of Empire of the Petal Throne, I tried to do a conversion to use Savage Worlds rule system. I thought that using a contemporary rule system would make it easier to find players. home.earthlink.net/~djackson24/Delbert6a.htm
A subset of a subset is still too small to be viable. Not much luck.

At least I still have my fond memories. (and one of my original character sheets.)
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[dwayanu]

Tirikelu, by Dave Morris, has become my favorite rules-set for immersive Tekumel roleplaying.

I like to throw EPT stuff into my D&D dungeons. The Ssu are very scary! If players get intrigued, they can visit Tekumel (fine print: at cost of all their iron gear!).

It's been a long time ere that tactic last led to a spinoff campaign (ditto other cross-milieu/game "side trips") -- but it's fun any way.

[korgoth]

I got this game in the mail recently. I haven't had time to fully digest it. There are some interesting ideas, though.

I particularly like the damage multiplier that a higher level character gets against a lower level one. Very Conan.

From what I've seen poking about on the net, I wouldn't be interested in the whole "immerse yourself in Tekumel culture and play politics" style of game. But for weird dungeon crawling EPT looks pretty good.

[greentongue]

korgoth said:

From what I've seen poking about on the net, I wouldn't be interested in the whole "immerse yourself in Tekumel culture and play politics" style of game. But for weird dungeon crawling EPT looks pretty good.

In my opinion that while the "culture and play politics" style of game looks like it might be fun, you REALLY need to know the background to do it. As anyone that has a familarity with Tekumel knows, that takes a LOT of study.

On the other hand, the "weird dungeon crawling EPT" is a lot of fun and easier for new players to get into. Especially with the classic "just off the boat" start.
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[Pierce Inverarity]

I just got the Book of Ebon Bindings from Tita's House of Gaming this weekend (from the mythic Tita herself to be precise--I was in the neighborhood).

It does rock exactly as hard as I remember Cali saying somewhere. Best demon lore book I've ever seen. Completely stat-free, too.

Even better: they have it on sale for $10.

[dwayanu]

The "just off the boat" scenario really ends up begging the question; one must have grown up somewhere! In my campaign, I made Pechano relatively close to the medieval European setup more or less familiar to most D&D players and had first characters arrive from there. The Isles (Vra, Thayuri, Ganga, etc.) are also tempting -- especially if one is not too burdened with a compulsion to follow "canon."

I recently downloaded from RPGNow PDFs covering the original boxed set. At first perusal, I find the quality excellent. Whether you're looking for backups for time-worn originals or interested in checking out the game for the first time, I heartily recommend this resource.

[greentongue]

dwayanu said:

The "just off the boat" scenario really ends up begging the question; one must have grown up somewhere! In my campaign, I made Pechano relatively close to the medieval European setup more or less familiar to most D&D players and had first characters arrive from there. The Isles (Vra, Thayuri, Ganga, etc.) are also tempting -- especially if one is not too burdened with a compulsion to follow "canon."

I modified the "just off the boat" to "out of step due to time" in the last game I was able to find players for.
Posted summaries here:
home.earthlink.net/~djackson24/Delbert6a.htm

The Isles should work well. I believe I remember playing in a couple of games that started that way.

[tgamemaster1975]

greentongue said:

dwayanu said:

The "just off the boat" scenario really ends up begging the question; one must have grown up somewhere! In my campaign, I made Pechano relatively close to the medieval European setup more or less familiar to most D&D players and had first characters arrive from there. The Isles (Vra, Thayuri, Ganga, etc.) are also tempting -- especially if one is not too burdened with a compulsion to follow "canon."

I modified the "just off the boat" to "out of step due to time" in the last game I was able to find players for.
Posted summaries here:
home.earthlink.net/~djackson24/Delbert6a.htm

The Isles should work well. I believe I remember playing in a couple of games that started that way.

That is a very cool website, looks like I have a lot of reading to do.

[Finarvyn]

I agree, but...
1. I'm still not hooked on the Savage Worlds rules, in spite of the fact that several people have told me that I will love it. (And the Solomon Kane RPG uses SW!)
2. So many goodies, but spread out so much. A single PDF or Word doc would be sweet, rather than having to keep opening up links....

Good job on the site!

[greentongue]

2. So many goodies, but spread out so much. A single PDF or Word doc would be sweet, rather than having to keep opening up links....

As there is little interest, I am working on it as time allows.
Once I get all the pieces firmed up I will put it in a PDF.

Certainly open to suggestions, ideas and/or priorities.

Please
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[Deleted]

oldgeezer said:

dilvish said:

This guy was a language freak and loved to write with those crazy letters, but I just found them odd.

"This guy" is a professor of linguistics, so it's no surprise languages show up in his game.

LOL! No, I meant the guy I played with. He was a language freak.

I knew that MAR Barker was a professor of languages.

[Deleted]

As Rhuvein implies, T:EPT is a very much a game of role playing and drama - one of the things I like about Tekumel is that social interaction (knowing who is who in the clanhouse) is just as important as combat.

Mind you, when combat DOES occur, it can be very swift and very deadly!

Playing characters "just off the boat" can be disastrous in the complex societies of Tekumel, while playing Very High Clan characters - because they "care less about the niceties - can also land one in trouble (one needs to *know* the niceties, before one can ignore them). IMO, the best option for a GM is to start the campaign in a backwater as members of a Medium Level clan - one has someone to whom one has to defer, as well as someone to look down on!

Sally Abravanel

[korgoth]

salabra said:

Playing characters "just off the boat" can be disastrous in the complex societies of Tekumel,

Surely such characters can simply stab any autocratic lackeys in the face, though! Mighty thews and pantherish reflexes and all that.

[greentongue]

salabra said:

As Rhuvein implies, T:EPT is a very much a game of role playing and drama - one of the things I like about Tekumel is that social interaction (knowing who is who in the clanhouse) is just as important as combat.

Mind you, when combat DOES occur, it can be very swift and very deadly!

Playing characters "just off the boat" can be disastrous in the complex societies of Tekumel, while playing Very High Clan characters - because they "care less about the niceties - can also land one in trouble (one needs to *know* the niceties, before one can ignore them). IMO, the best option for a GM is to start the campaign in a backwater as members of a Medium Level clan - one has someone to whom one has to defer, as well as someone to look down on!

Sally Abravanel

This is specificly why I prefer OEPT to T:EPT.
I already have enough social complications in my "Real Life."
I play GAMES to get away from it for a while.

I applaud those who find fun in complication; I'm just not one of them.

korgoth said:

Surely such characters can simply stab any autocratic lackeys in the face, though! Mighty thews and pantherish reflexes and all that.

I do believe that would end badly no matter which rule system you used.
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[korgoth]

greentongue said:

korgoth said:

Surely such characters can simply stab any autocratic lackeys in the face, though! Mighty thews and pantherish reflexes and all that.

I do believe that would end badly no matter which rule system you used.
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Always seems to work for Conan. Tsolyani, Stygians... all the same, right? Self-important, tyrannical lackeys begging to be hewed down by a barbarian's thirsty blade.