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Post by ravenheart87 on Jun 9, 2011 11:09:10 GMT -6
While many like OD&D and it's clones with three or four classes, I'm quite the opposite. I already use the most iconic, non-3LBB classes in my S&W campaign (paladin, assassin, druid, ranger, monk), but a few weeks ago I began reading the issues of Strategic Review, Dragon, Dungeoneer, to collect and revamp such forgotten ones, like the samurai, the alchemist, the berserker, the jester, the witch, the warlock, etc.
My question is: do anyone of you ever tried any of these, or other OD&D classes of this kind? If yes, please share your experiences about them!
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Post by thorswulf on Jun 10, 2011 22:20:32 GMT -6
This reminds me of a guy I knew who had a Punk Rocker class in his game. I never did get how it worked but one of the characteristics were the size of your genitalia! Well, high school boys will be boys, I guess!
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Post by ravenheart87 on Jun 11, 2011 1:41:43 GMT -6
This reminds me of a guy I knew who had a Punk Rocker class in his game. I never did get how it worked but one of the characteristics were the size of your genitalia! Well, high school boys will be boys, I guess! Wow... Now that's something that I would never even consider to use, at least without changes.  |
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Post by waysoftheearth on Jun 14, 2011 0:57:32 GMT -6
My question is: do anyone of you ever tried any of these, or other OD&D classes of this kind? If yes, please share your experiences about them! I regularly use "extraneous" PC classes in my games based on what the players themselves want to play. If someone is especially enthusiastic about a specific type of character, I'll almost always find a way for them to do so. See (for example) a few of my posts elsewhere on these boards: I've never had any problems with allowing these kinds of classes, and I'd even like to think that the players have enjoyed them as much as I have  |
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Post by ravenheart87 on Jun 14, 2011 9:44:01 GMT -6
My question is: do anyone of you ever tried any of these, or other OD&D classes of this kind? If yes, please share your experiences about them! I regularly use "extraneous" PC classes in my games based on what the players themselves want to play. If someone is especially enthusiastic about a specific type of character, I'll almost always find a way for them to do so. See (for example) a few of my posts elsewhere on these boards: I've never had any problems with allowing these kinds of classes, and I'd even like to think that the players have enjoyed them as much as I have I saw your Middle Earth rules before, but the others are new to me. And all of them is really cool. I see you like tinkering with the system too. I hope you don't mind if I borrow some of your ideas. I began (re-)reading the classes of Strategic Review and Dragon. So far ranger, bard, illusionist, alchemist, samurai, jester are in with minor modifications, berserker will be heavily modified (I don't like the lycantrophy part, I want them more viking-like), and I won't use idiot (no thanks), healer (don't see the point of the class) and scribe (it's an NPC, which has no place in my campaign). I'll possibly write about them more, once my exams are done (somewhere around the beginning of July). I also have some plans for an archeologist class. Just like in NetHack, it's heavily influenced by Indiana Jones. It will be a sub-class of thief. |
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Post by tombowings on Jun 14, 2011 11:19:15 GMT -6
Having been playing with waysoftheearth for more than a year now, just about everything he's done has worked out brilliantly. I as well have been borrowing ideas for my own home game, not counting the rules he borrowed from me.
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Post by waysoftheearth on Jun 14, 2011 20:43:20 GMT -6
I hope you don't mind if I borrow some of your ideas. I don't mind at all. I am always happy to learn that others might find a use for some of my tinkerings I won't use ... healer (don't see the point of the class) I use the healer mainly as an NPC class which appears when the players visit a shrine, hermitage or house of healing in campaigns which don't feature healing Clerics (such as most of my own games). They also feature as the Bard (multiclassed fighter/healer) in my interpretation of Middle Earth. Having been playing with waysoftheearth for more than a year now, just about everything he's done has worked out brilliantly. I as well have been borrowing ideas for my own home game, not counting the rules he borrowed from me. Thanks Tombowings, great to hear you're enjoying my games (A bit off topic; I was trialing a chance in 6 roll based on Constitution to survive a killing blow in my pen and paper game, but my method didn't account for how many negative hit points a PC was reduced to. Your save versus death mechanic covers this off nicely. Will be interesting to see how it goes in my Moria PBP...) |
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Post by ravenheart87 on Jun 14, 2011 21:58:30 GMT -6
I don't have problem with your healer, I was talking about the one in Dragon magazine.  |
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Post by geoffrey on Jun 17, 2011 23:08:22 GMT -6
I began (re-)reading the classes of Strategic Review and Dragon. So far ranger, bard, illusionist, alchemist, samurai, jester are in with minor modifications... What did you use as the basis for your jester class? Is it Roger Moore's jester in Dragon #60? |
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Post by ravenheart87 on Jun 18, 2011 8:51:36 GMT -6
I began (re-)reading the classes of Strategic Review and Dragon. So far ranger, bard, illusionist, alchemist, samurai, jester are in with minor modifications... What did you use as the basis for your jester class? Is it Roger Moore's jester in Dragon #60? So far I've only got notes of those classes. Right now I'm not sitting at my own computer, so I can't tell you which issue of Dragon the OD&D Jester is in, but it's the same issue that has the healer, the scribe, the samurai, the berserker and the idiot. Somewhere around Dragon #3-#6, IIRC. But I'll check Moore's Jester too, once I'm done with exams. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2011 11:19:33 GMT -6
TSR #201 p. 11 makes a reference to jesters in an article detailing the OD&D Bard class.
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Post by tombowings on Jun 18, 2011 12:04:20 GMT -6
Thanks Tombowings, great to hear you're enjoying my games (A bit off topic; I was trialing a chance in 6 roll based on Constitution to survive a killing blow in my pen and paper game, but my method didn't account for how many negative hit points a PC was reduced to. Your save versus death mechanic covers this off nicely. Will be interesting to see how it goes in my Moria PBP...) (I've been using that in my games for a few years now and I'm pretty happy with the results. I was actually referring to the spell memorization rules ignoring spell level so long as your character's level is at least equally high and magic-users having 1 spell per day per level of experience they have achieved.) |
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Post by geoffrey on Jun 18, 2011 14:46:49 GMT -6
Ah! The jester class is in The Dragon #3, pages 28-30. I really need to play a jester.
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Post by waysoftheearth on Jun 19, 2011 2:58:53 GMT -6
I was actually referring to the spell memorization rules ignoring spell level so long as your character's level is at least equally high and magic-users having 1 spell per day per level of experience they have achieved.) Ah. There are so many great ideas kicking around these boards I can't recall which came from where  Have an exalt for dreaming that one up ;D Ah! The jester class is in The Dragon #3, pages 28-30. I really need to play a jester. I hadn't read that until now, but it's fantastic! It immediately conjures up ideas of a troop of wicked jester/contortionist types fleecing the locals... |
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Post by ravenheart87 on Jun 25, 2011 3:48:22 GMT -6
So, I had some time to check the ninja class of Dragon #16. Unfotunately, it's an NPC class which is ideal to kill your party - hence there's no XP chart, and has a lot of abilities. Checked the ninja in Oriental Adventures too, it had some interesting powers, but wasn't that cool like the one in Dragon #16. I found all the ninja classes from later editions dull somehow. My task is now to mix the OD&D and the OA ninja into one PC class.
The biggest question is, whether they shall be a full class that can be chosen at first level, or a "prestigue" class like the OA ninja. I think I will settle with the former way, but with high minimal requirements. Since I always have a house rule for improving abilities, even if you begin in a basic class, you still have the chance to enter one of the few elite sub-classes later.
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Post by waysoftheearth on Jun 25, 2011 5:44:32 GMT -6
For me the Ninja is a combination Assassin/Thief-Acrobat. They are sneaky, acrobatic, and have a fearsome sneak attack; some nice benefits for sure, but they also have two major constraints. They are feared and hated (as are all assassins), and they rely completely on speed and agility, so can wear only the absolutely lightest armour (not even leather).
How about this:
The Ninja-Assassin is widely hated and feared. He requires 12 strength, 12 intelligence and 12 dexterity but earns no XP bonus. He adds +2 to saving throws that require quick reflexes (assuming a S&W style single saving throw), including dodging/deflecting up to one incoming arrow per level each round.
When operating in an urban or dungeon environment a ninja-assassin surprises enemy 4 times in 6, and is surprised only 1 time in 6. When he attacks with surprise he adds 1d6 damage for each odd numbered level he has attained. He has the use of all weaponry but can employ no armour, shield or helm. A ninja-assassin has 4 chances in 6 of performing any feat of subterfuge, acrobatics, or the identification, preparation or application of poison.
Don't worry too much about the XP charts. I use the fighter XP chart for all PCs as it is, but you could pick whichever existing one you feel is most appropriate.
edit: added save versus arrows. added all weaponry, no armour.
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Post by tombowings on Jun 25, 2011 10:01:41 GMT -6
A little off topic...
waysoftheearth, you thief, assassin, thief-acrobat, and ninja-assassin are all a bit too similar for my tastes. Except for maybe the barbarian, every other class I've seen from yours is pretty distinct and has a separate role in the party. I'm just not seeing that with these four classes. You mileage may vary.
Instead, I might considering something like this (although it may not be fitting as a ninja specific, but it's still a whole that would be fun to see filled).
He requires 12 strength, 12 intelligence, 12 wisdom, and 12 dexterity but earns no XP bonus. He adds +2 to saving throws that require quick reflexes and may dodge incoming arrows that would otherwise hit him with a successful saving throw, but only when completely unarmoured. When operating in an urban or dungeon environment a [class name] surprises enemy 4 times in 6, and is surprised only 1 time in 6. When he attacks with surprise he adds 1d6 extra damage per four levels attained, but he is limited to light arms (club, dagger, hammer, hand axe, hand crossbow, short bow, short sword, sling, staff, whip) and light armor. A [class name] has 4 chances in 6 of performing any feat of subterfuge, acrobatics, or Great lore.
A [class name] can memorise one wizard spell per 2 experience levels (adjusted by intelligence) so long as no memorised spell's level exceeds half his own (or 1, whichever is greater).
[hit dice progression as wizard or alchemist]
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Post by waysoftheearth on Jun 25, 2011 21:03:52 GMT -6
Tombowings -- I agree that all these "thiefy" subclasses are rather similar, begging the question whether or not they are really necessary at all. For the purpose of this discussion, let's just assume they are... I love the deflect/dodge arrow save... that's an evocative image in my imagination, so it's probably on the right track I'll update my description above. I'm not certain about the alchemy/spell casting capabilities though. For me, those are the realm of other character types. The ninja could certainly use smoke powder and sleeping dust etc., but I'd have those things as equipment that would have to be prepared by someone else. But as you say, your mileage may vary. |
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Post by tombowings on Jun 25, 2011 22:25:29 GMT -6
Oh, I agree. It doesn't really fit the ninja. I was just throwing a couple ideas out there for a thief like class that was more distinct that the others.
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Post by ravenheart87 on Jun 26, 2011 0:09:52 GMT -6
Instead of magic or alchemy (like in the Wizardry series), I will keep the ninja's ability to prepare poison and various tools of his trade, as in Dragon #16. Thief skills will remain, but on a lower level. Disguise is neccessary, since ninjas were superb spies. Assassination remains too. Some martial arts, mystic skills and oriental weapons are too cool leave out - holding breath, jumping high, avoiding missiles, running fast, etc. There are a few other abilities I couldn't decide about, but most of these stay. Cons will be high requirement, low hit dice, high XP requirements to level up, no armour proficiency and naturally - the clan! Or clans - if a rival clan finds your presence out, they will try to find and kill you ASAP. If your party is continuously attacked by ninjas, it's a clear sign that someone in your party might be a ninja too. |
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bert
Level 4 Theurgist
Posts: 138
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Post by bert on Jun 26, 2011 8:41:52 GMT -6
Have you seen the White Dwarf character classes? They were AD&D rather than ODD, but every issue for the first few years of WDs run would have a new character class or variant. Popular ones that saw some use in my campaign were
Houri (female Magic User with lots of charm spells and very few clothes), War Smith (fighter with a few cleric spells who could make magic weapons at high level),
Barbarian (the WD version had a beefed up first attack and could sneak up on people)
Necromancer (typical necrophile baddie who had spooky and gruesome special abilities in place of one shot spells)
and there were plenty more that looked quite fun but never quite made it into the campaign like the Merchant and Detective.
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Post by ravenheart87 on Jun 26, 2011 23:59:19 GMT -6
Bert, I'm going to check those out too, if I'm done with Dragon, Dungeoneer and the others. Barbarian and houri should be races IMO, and I already have berserker and witch classes, which sound quite similar. The craftsman and merchant class you mentioned may become useful. I'm planning to include the gadgeteer (like in Wizardry 8 or the techno of Arduin), which is a kind of craftsman. With alchemist, gadgeteer, craftsman and some kind of runesmith the whole "industry" would be covered. A few notes about my archeologist class (thank you, NetHack): The archeologist is someone who's searching for the remains of ancient cultures in dungeons, ancient ruins and the wilderness, either to preserve, study or sell them. The archeologist is a sub-class of thief, with d6 HP per level. To become one, above average dexterity, constitution and intelligence are required. A beginning archeologist can wear leather armour, but can't use shields. Their weapon proficiencies include daggers, knives, swords, whips, pistols. An archeologist gains thief skills like a thief half of his level. He's good at detecting secret doors and traps - for these rolls, he gets +1 on the d6. Because an archeologist travels a lot, he can read languages like a thief. Thanks to his historical studies, he has the lore skill, like a bard of equal level. An archeologist has a bonus to saving throws against devices, illusion and poison. A high level archeologist can gather students and other professors, to found a school, a museum or an academy, but many of them won't give his adventurous life up even after this. I'm still thinking about adding some bonus when wearing a fedora... |
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Post by calithena on Jun 27, 2011 10:48:27 GMT -6
I am amused by the Buffoon class in the Ready Ref Sheets, but the Witticism power looks pretty broken. On the other hand the Repartee rules (if you spend a round talking charismatically and everyone can understand the language, roll INT + CHA or less on percentile dice to turn the fight in to a parley) looks like a pretty solid house rule to me, and it's not limited to the Buffoon class either.
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leon
Level 4 Theurgist
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Post by leon on Jun 30, 2011 13:57:10 GMT -6
Have you seen the White Dwarf character classes? They were AD&D rather than ODD, The barbarian (WD #4) was for OD&D. The class is quite similar to the one published in Unearthed Arcana. |
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Have an exalt for dreaming that one up ;D
