Dwarves & Elves

[foxroe]

Question(s) for the group:

I know that the Elven "+1 damage with magical weapons" ability was briefly touched on in another thread, but do you (as a DM) give this benefit to PC Elves, or is it strictly an NPC/Monster trait?

And while I'm asking, do you grant the same boon for Dwarven PC's with respect to "Dwarves take half damage from Ogres and Giants"?

[foxroe]

Hmmm. Twenty-three views, but no replies. Either I did not word my initial post clearly enough, or the answer is obvious to everyone but me (or it's a boring topic )...

Not a big deal, I'm just curious how folks interpret these rules.

I'm referring to Monsters & Treasures page 16 (page 17 in the PDF):

Dwarves: Because of their relatively small size, clumsy monsters like Ogres, Giants and the like will have a difficult time hitting Dwarves, so score only one-half the usual hit points when a hit is scored...

Elves: Elves armed with magical weapons will add one pip to dice rolled to determine damage, i.e. when a hit is scored the possible number of damage points will be 2-7 per die.

I'm personally thinking that I'd like to apply these rules to PC's. These advantages are really not that powerful in light of the demi-human level limits, and I think that they're unique to OD&D, so I'm willing to give them a shot.

[talysman]

Personally, I'd restrict the elf bonus to the "monster" versions of elves. It's perhaps a feature of elven magical weapons, rather than of elves, in which case PC elves OR human fighters get that bonus, too... just not with "standard" magic weapons.

The dwarf thing is something I'd be more likely to apply to dwarves or halflings, but since it's not noted in Book 1, I'd be likely to forget it.

[Deleted]

I let Elves and Dwarves have the bonus. I think it is a reasonable ruling in light of the level limits for those classes.

[Finarvyn]

It all comes down to if I remember or forget. When I remember those things I tend to give them to the players, but often I simply forget that they are out there. My players in general don't know the rulebooks very well and rely on my memory, which is sometimes not the best plan.

[aldarron]

Yeah I give the bonus to dwarves as is, but for Elves I allow the +1 bonus only for Elven magic weapons.

[tombowings]

I tend to give halflings +1 to hit with slings; dwarves take only 1/2 from giants, trolls, and ogres; and elves have a unarmored/leather movement of 15" and can split move and fire.

[waysoftheearth]

I do as Aldaron already stated; Elves add 1 hit point of damage with enchanted weapons of Elvish make only.

And I translate the Dwarven "half damage" clause to a "-2 to hit" penalty instead.

Perhaps this is frugal compared to the -4 penalty that appears in the PHB, but I like to keep things simple and I happen to also use a "-2" penalty for a lot of other things (e.g., missiles versus shields, missiles at other than short range, big weapons in confined passages, and so on...)

[foxroe]

Apr 24, 2011 18:37:15 GMT -6 tombowings said:

I tend to give halflings +1 to hit with slings

This seems to be a common house rule. I actually use the +3 to hit with missile weapons from the Greyhawk supplement - how's that for showing some love to the little guys!

[cooper]

Elves in 0dd are described as having all the abilities listed in CHAINMAIL.

For Dwarves, Using the d20 alternate combat system a -4 to hit is statistically the same as taking 1/2 damage from giants. As creatures in 0d&d only get 1 attack, a -4 to hit is the equal of reducing his attack to every other round.

so, if you use the mtm or mass combat system then ruduce hits by half, if you're using d20 apply a -4 penalty to hit. Same thing.

[kesher]

For Dwarves, Using the d20 alternate combat system a -4 to hit is statistically the same as taking 1/2 damage from giants. As creatures in 0d&d only get 1 attack, a -4 to hit is the equal of reducing his attack to every other round.

Sorry coop--I don't understand this at all. Would you mind a bit of explication?

[cooper]

Mathematically every +/-4 on a d20 is statistically the same as another attack.

Eg. A fighter with a 16 thac0 hits his opponent with the same regularity as another fighter with a 20 thac0 and 2 attacks.

Therefore, applying a -4 penalty to a giants attack against a dwarf is reducing his number attacks (or hits to use the vocabulary of CHAINMAIL) by 1/2 from one attack per round to the equivalent of one attack every other round. In effect reducing his damage by half give or take.

[kesher]

Well, I still don't get it, but I put the blame on my near mathematical illiteracy rather than your explanation!

Thanks for trying, though!

[calithena]

It's not quite so simple. The -4 works like this:

20 to hit vs. 16 to hit: 25% for one hit vs. 5% x 2 = 10%

15 to hit vs. 11 to hit: 50% for one hit vs. 25% x 2 = 50%.

10 to hit vs. 6 to hit: 75% for one hit vs. 55% x 2 = 110%.

(The second percentage isn't your actual chance to hit, it's your average damage yield.)

So between -4 and -6 is not a bad rule of thumb but it is not exactly the same as an attack.