Level range in the campaign

[Finarvyn]

An interesting post on Grognardia about level ranges of classic D&D and AD&D modules from "back in the day."

I know that OD&D seemed to top out somewhere around level 10-12 (maybe 14-16 when supplements are added) and AD&D was supposed to max out at 20th level. 3E expaned with Epic levels that brought the game to 30th level. (BECMI D&D actually went as high as 36th level.)

I think that this sort of thing tends to skew one's thinking about what it means to be "high level" in the game.

Anyway, I thouhgt that James' post on Grognardia was pretty cool and wanted to direct folks there if they haven't seen it.

[cooper]

Looking at the combined chart I made, HERE what struck me is that everyone kind of topped out combat wise at 12th-14th level. Wizards got their 6th level spells, thieves got 100% in their thieving abilities, fighters hit the best Thac0 etc. I see it as:

heroic tier: 1-5
paragon/super-heroic: 6-12
epic/demi-god: 13-15
lesser gods: 16-17
greater gods: 18+

I'm evening toying with the idea of requiring gold peice value in "followers" for xp past 12th level and start introducing dieties and demi-god abilities for each level past 13th. So a demon like Lloth wants to conquor worlds like in Queen of the Demon Web Pit because a conquored population is worth "xp" for leveling purposes. So the idea of god-hood is predicated on how many prime material planes you've conquored (using chainmail of course) and also explains (for me) why Iuz and other such nefarious sorts are always trying to enslave the world they live in and why demons are trying to over run prime material planes as well.

So things like limited wish and other 7th+ spells are really the pervue of demi-gods and gods etc.

[Finarvyn]

Cooper -- I did a similar thing and posted it on James' blog. Here was my analysis:

I took the list of 36 modules, calculated the average suggested level for each, and charted it to see what patterns emerge. I found that 12 of the modules fell into the average level 2-3 range, 12 of the modulres fell into the average level 4.5-8 range, adn 12 of the modules fell into the average level 10-12 range.

So my tiers broke down a little different than yours, but essentially we had the same conclusion.

[Deleted]

Some food for thought from an article that I started writing about leveling in old school D&D, but never finished:

It is reasonable to calculate that if a fair player takes part in 50 to 75 games in the course of a year he should acquire sufficient experience points to make him about 9th to 11th level, assuming that he manages to survive all that play. The acquisition of successively higher levels will be proportionate to enhanced power and the number of experience points necessary to attain them, so another year of play will by no means mean a doubling of levels but rather the addition of perhaps two or three levels. Using this gauge, it should take four or five years to see 20th level. (Quoted from the article "D&D Is Only as Good as the DM" appearing in The Strategic Review Vol. 2, No. 2 from 1976.)

As a guideline, it should take a group of players from 6 to 12 adventures before any of their characters are able to gain sufficient experience to attain second level. This guidelining will hold true for successive levels. Note that it is assumed that the 6 to 12 adventures are ones in which a fair amount of treasure was brought back — some 10% to 20% of adventures will likely prove relatively profitless for one reason or another. (Quoted from page 22 of the Basic Dungeons and Dragons rules edited by J. Eric Holmes in 1977.)

Lewis Pulsipher, a frequent contributor to The Dragon and White Dwarf back in the day, defined low, middle, and high levels as 1st-3rd, 4th-6th, and 7th-9th in an article about the philosophy of D&D campaigns in the first issue of White Dwarf magazine in 1977. He further stated that "My view, reinforced by the designer's articles, is that to reach 100,000 experience points should require at least 50 adventures, but this is a matter in which each referee must please himself." (Quoted from "D&D Campaigns Part II: Mechanics" by Lewis Pulsipher as originally published in White Dwarf Issue No. 4, Dec 1977/January 1978) In regards to creating dungeon levels, he states that "[Two or three levels] will be sufficient for the first few months of the campaign. As the campaign progresses add more levels, down to about the seventh after six or seven months." (Quoted from "D&D Campaigns Part II: Mechanics" by Lewis Pulsipher as originally published in White Dwarf Issue No. 4, Dec 1977/January 1978)

Originally Posted by E. Gary Gygax a.k.a. Col_Pladoh
The number of XPs given to rise a level was initially intuitive, later on based on the play of my campaign group. I think that 52 sessions to reach 10th level is about right if the time per session is about four hours. Longner sessions would reduce the number accordingly.
(Quoted in a post at ENWorld see www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=167628&page=2#post2930201)

[jacar]

Mostly the way the XP charts are laid out, you run out of gas at the level you roll your last hit die. After that, you require lots of XP to gain another level.

In my re-write, I combined the idea of 3.5e with ODD by using the 1000 point base for 2nd level and use that for all classes. For dual class, double the amount needed. Since the XP requirement is double for the next level, this ensures that a dual class character will always lag 1 level behind the party. First level is a "hell" level for dual class. They watch the rest of the party get to 2nd level while they are only half way there.

As for the actual level naming, I enjoyed the ODD style with hero/super-hero and generally dislike the idea of the "God" classes. To my mind, once you've hit 13th or 14th level, you are a king/overlord/whatever and don't go adventuring anymore. The most fun ODD can be is in the "tween" levels around 4-8 about the time you hit "hero". A half year in if you are playing weekly.

John