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Post by Finarvyn on Jan 27, 2011 10:42:21 GMT -6
I grabbed this post from Craig since it was hidden in the middle of a S&W thread and I thought it deserved a thread of its own. I've been reading a lot lately about the OSR, and the roots of the gaming hobby. The White Box and the recently released version of Dave Arneson's original game appeal to me greatly for some reason. I am happy to see these kinds of games being produced that make us examine the basics of gaming. I've just about finished reading Andre Norton's Quag Keep, the first book set in Gygax's Greyhawk and given that EGG had input into the book in many facets (as I understand it), I am surprised that D&D didn't evolve down a different model for races and classes for PCs. Craig J. Brain I'm curious as to what alternate evolution you imagine here. Since OD&D came before Quag Keep, QK seems to me like it would have had minimal impact on OD&D's evolution. I'd like your thought on this. I've often wondered about the extend of Gygax's contribution to Quag Keep, as many of the correct terms are in place but the "feel" of the book doesn't really reflect the feel of the game. On the other hand, very few gaming-based fiction books (or movied) ever really seem to capture the rpg feel. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2011 0:46:08 GMT -6
I think EGG had a lot of input into Quag Keep, however a very experienced writer Andre Norton had a definite style and both knew what played well in a game would not necessarily translate well to a story in a book. I don't know how many copies it sold to D&D players back in the day, though since I for one, didn't see the book until years later so I would have to go back and read it again here many years later to think about alternate ways OD&D might have evolved into the next version of D&D Holmes and later.
I think it would take an REH or an ERB type of writer to really capture the feel of a good campaign and put it on paper.
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Post by Finarvyn on Jan 28, 2011 12:37:20 GMT -6
I know that a friend of mine got a copy in the '70's, and it looked like a SciFi book club edition, so I read one back then. I don't remember it really influencing our game style at all. Even then the game references seemed a bit strained, but maybe I was just too immature to really appreciate. (I've discovered many books are better now that I re-read them years later. Sadly, some are a lot worse. Go figure.)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2011 16:01:26 GMT -6
I found a copy on e-bay and can't wait to read it. Sounds like a really swell read, since it was actually pre-Grayhawk and all!
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Post by Finarvyn on Mar 31, 2011 17:47:15 GMT -6
Well, it's a decent book but don't get your hopes up too much. I guess some folks love it, but to me it was pretty average. The thing that I like best is that it links (vaguely) to Greyhawk and is really the first Greyhawk book ever. That part was pretty cool.
I've owned the sequel for years and haven't been inspired enough to read it. I guess that says something....
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Post by harami2000 on Mar 31, 2011 19:28:19 GMT -6
I'm curious as to what alternate evolution you imagine here. Since OD&D came before Quag Keep, QK seems to me like it would have had minimal impact on OD&D's evolution. Agreed. Gary respected her abilities as an author and encouraged the writing of QK with a degree of input but that does not /appear/ to have been "overwhelming".  The book was well publicized in The Dragon and must've sold a number of additional copies to D&D aficionados but I'd be hard pushed to think of /any/ "campaign report" that's changed the way a game is played. (A similar experience on a wider scale with the likes of Magira where the fiction is set in and inspired by the game/gameworld and that fictional layers can interweave but those doesn't really feed back into the actual underlying /mechanics/ of the game afaik). |
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Post by jasmith on Mar 31, 2011 21:06:56 GMT -6
Well, it's a decent book but don't get your hopes up too much. I guess some folks love it, but to me it was pretty average. The thing that I like best is that it links (vaguely) to Greyhawk and is really the first Greyhawk book ever. That part was pretty cool. I've owned the sequel for years and haven't been inspired enough to read it. I guess that says something.... Read it as a teenager, soon after discovering D&D. And didn't like it much then. Maybe I'd appreciate it more today, but I rather doubt it. I never read Norton again. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2011 9:25:07 GMT -6
Maybe I'd appreciate it more today, but I rather doubt it. I never read Norton again. Didn't Norton also do the "Witch World" books? Those were supposed to be pretty good. At least, there were a dozen or so of them so they must have sold well. It's hard to write gaming fiction that feels like the game but doesn't sound like you're writing gaming fiction. At least, I've never found any I like. If I see one more game fiction book mention that someone "got initiative" I'll scream. I mean, who writes like that?  |
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Post by Finarvyn on Apr 2, 2011 9:28:03 GMT -6
Norton did do the "Witch World" books. I read one once and it was decent, but never read the rest. My wife read them all and loved them. Maybe it's a chick thing?
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Post by kesher on Apr 2, 2011 9:58:13 GMT -6
Hey now--I loved those books!  To be honest though, the WW books are uneven, though they all have some surreal creepiness in them... |
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Post by thorswulf on Apr 2, 2011 22:11:20 GMT -6
Quag keep was ok. The witch world series are fairly decent all the way around. I prefer the short stories, as they really show Norton's strength as a writer.
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Post by Zenopus on Apr 25, 2011 22:04:48 GMT -6
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Post by Otto Harkaman on Dec 10, 2014 18:27:04 GMT -6
I remember reading it when it first came out and was disappointed. However when I reread it years later I appreciated it much more. Its more in Mrs. Norton's style than directly using the game mechanics, I guess that is what I was looking for at first. I've reread her Witch World books over an over, some are stronger than others. Its really amazing how many books and stories she wrote. I have a copy of Quag Keep on my bookshelf that I picked up at a used bookstore not too long ago. I'll probably reread it again and enjoy it for itself instead of trying to tie it into anything else.
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Post by sepulchre on Dec 11, 2014 10:33:18 GMT -6
Zenopus wrote:
Thanks very much for posting the link, however, I am receiving notice that the webpage is not available. Might you have another link?
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I've been reading a lot lately about the OSR, and the roots of the gaming hobby. The White Box and the recently released version of Dave Arneson's original game appeal to me greatly for some reason.
