weird wizards and no 1st-level spells?

[geoffrey]

I'm working on a campaign setting in which I've tossed-out all the standard D&D spells, replacing them with the spells in Matt Finch's Eldritch Weirdness (along with 3 new spells from James Raggi's Lamentations of the Flame Princess RPG).

The thing is, there are no 1st-level spells in the resulting spell list.

My first thought was to switch the level of some of the spells, but then I decided to leave all the spells as-is.

My second thought was to write some new 1st-level spells, but I decided that was too pedestrian. Not weird enough.

Magic-users do not get to cast spells until they reach 3rd level, at which time they can cast a 2nd-level spell. (Just imagine the magic-user spell advancement table with the 1st-level spells column chopped-off.) That's pretty strange, which is a plus. This is not entirely unlike clerics not getting spell-casting capabilities until they reach 2nd level.

So what should magic-users get at 1st and 2nd level? I'm certainly not interested in some sort of ZAP! power. If it does X amount of damage, I'm not interested. I'm trying to think of something weird (but not horrific or goofy), in keeping with the weirdness of Eldritch Weirdness.

[vito]

Doom.

Magic-Users should be doomed from the start.

When playing a Magic-User, roll a six-sided die to determine your inevitable fate.

Doom (1d6)
1: Madness (you will lose your sanity over time).
2: Dehumanization (you will gradually turn into a monster).
3: Betrayal (you will be slain by an ally.)
4: Corruption (you will eventually become evil.)
5: Cursed (you will have the worst luck).
6: Blessed (you are not doomed. You will live a happy life. Congratulatons!)


Also, swords.
Wizards should use swords.

[tombowings]

You could give them some sort of couterspell ability similar to clerics turning undead. Alternatively, you could allow them to turn/control undead.

[jasons]

Perhaps at low levels the weird magician must first master mind control (his own being first on the list) and illusion before actually altering the fabric of reality. Thus a low level light spell wouldn't actually create light, rather it would alter the perceptions of minds within its range. Give them a choice of a few (dare I say it?) daily powers: minor charms (impart euphoria, sway opinion, bewilder) and small-time illusions (fake fireball, illusionary sidekick).

[waysoftheearth]

You might allow low level wizards to concot "magical" powders, dusts and potions -- assuming they locate the correct ingredients -- as minor, single use "magic items".

Or, you might allow our apprentices the unlimited use of a minor magical effect, similar to the prestidigitation spell (described in 3e, I think), or phantasmal force, or similar. Perhaps a saving throw is required to avoid 1hp of subdual damage each time the magic is used?

Or, you might allow our wizardlings the ability to read magic spells from scroll or spell books, assuming they could get their hands on these items. On a d6 throw equal to or less than the spell level, the spell backfires or has some random effect. At each new level, roll a bigger sized die.

Or, you might grant each would-be-sorcerer access to a number of alien tongues (each in place of a regular language), and the secret names of 1d4+2 daemonic outsiders of unknown disposition. The magic-user can close his eyes and utter gibberish phrases in the appropriate alien tongue in order to barter for information or small favours from these beings. Perhaps there is a cost (sacrifice) for each such favour? Perhaps individual beings are only responsive under certain conditions, such as when the moon is full, at high tide, during and eclipse, and so on, or when certain offerings are made... you name it. Each would have a limited sphere of influence which the magic-user would have to discover by trial and error, and its own particular "angle". Some might be malign, or selfish, and others merely mischievous, or curious. All would have distinct personalities, and be invisible characters in the game. Some might have especially strong desires, loathings, or vices... all to be learned of and exploited by the aspiring magic-user...

[Finarvyn]

I think this depends upon the level range you intend for your campaign.

MU's already have very few spells at low level and giving them fewer may "kill" magic use in the game. If there isn't a lot of magic use, it totally changes the fantasy feel of the campaign.

I'd be wary of taking away the few low-level spells that MU's can use. In my game, characters quit advancing and retire somewhere around 8th level. Removing spells for 1st and 2nd level characters is really a disadvantage.

[aldarron]

One traditional idea (in europe anyway) stemming from shamanism that sometimes was held was that "magic users" didn't really cast spells at all, they made pacts with magical forces through ritual etc. and the forces that served them cast the spell - again this is somewhat along the lines of your sorceror character, but here is what I'm thinking might work for you:

Begining MU's engage in a shamanic ritual to acquire a spirit guide - a familiar - whom they form a bond with. The familiar is only capable of performing some minor magic - first level spells - which it will do at the request of the magic user. However, when the familiar casts spells the MU can feel the magic as it is channeled through them. The bond thus formed is permanent and acts as a kind of mental alteration and acclimatization that gradually leads to the MU being able to master spell casting themselves at 3rd level.

[premmy]

A long time ago someone posted a relevant concept on Dragonsfoot, with the idea that wizards are the experts when it comes to using magic items. Have plenty of wands, staves and other magical gear that only they can use. You could even expand on the idea and give them relevant class abilities: fennling (recharging magic wands, transferring charges between them, maybe even modifying their effects - name comes from the Roguelike Ragnarok, not sure if its a real word) or concocting alchemical products. I could even see giving each wizard a born-with at-will (or limited uses per day) power, determined randomly: telekinesis, detect magic (but with lengthy activation process), ESP, speaking with the dead, other divination, charm, change self, whatever.

[verhaden]

Pre-determine that singular 2nd level spell the magic-user can cast upon reaching 3rd level. Allow them to use it a la <philotomy.com/#special_effects>.

In my OD&D game, spell-casters enjoy the capability to produce minor magical effects related to the spells they have currently memorized. For example, a magic user who has fireball memorized might be able to light his pipe with a small flame from his thumb, or make smoke come from his ears when annoyed. A sorceress with gust of wind memorized might have her hair constantly blowing in an otherwise non-existent breeze. Using a special effect does not cast or use up the spell it is related to; they're not so much "spells" as they are tangible evidence that the magic user has a spell memorized. I do not codify these effects, but rather rely on the players to suggest or request an effect, which I then approve or deny. While I do not have a hard-and-fast rule against special effects that have a mechanical game effect, special effects are always minor, cantrip-like effects.

I like this house-rule for several reasons. First, it adds to the weird otherworldliness of magic users, and I love weird and fantastic elements in my D&D game. Second, it gives low-level magic users something arcane and archetype-supporting to do without using up their memorized spells or abandoning the concept of Vancian magic. Third, it's just cool to play a wizard that can make his eyes glow, or make his smoke rings come out different colors, or whatever. I know that players enjoy the special effects, and also enjoy trying to figure out what spells an NPC caster has based upon what his special effects reveal. The only real danger is allowing effects which are too potent, which could erode the feel of the Vancian magic system. It's up to the referee to make that call on a case-by-case basis.

[jonathan]

I might integrate the Holmes scroll rule and let the MU scribe and use 2nd-level spell scrolls until he or she is powerful enough to cast them on their own. IIRC, that'd cost them 200gp and 2 days (or is it weeks?) preparation for each spell they want to cast. Since I'm not 100% coldhearted, I'd let them start play with a couple random scrolls and get a "free" scroll or two upon achieving 2nd level.

Alternatively, I might give them some thief-like percentile abilities that they can use. I'd turn Detect Magic into such an ability. I'd also give them the Thief Read Languages and maybe even the Remove Traps (useable on arcane glyphs and other magical traps) and Hide in Shadows (to represent chameleon-powers or invisibility) abilities to represent their innate magic, education, and cunning.

[coffee]

The main advantage a Magic User has over other characters is knowledge.

While they're on their road to learning the ways of magic, they've come across any number of odd facts, of the sort no sane man would know.

I'd give the fledgling Magic Users a "Knowledge" roll (not a skill - a class ability). Whey they come across something "weird", they have a chance to know something about it. Not ALL about it, obviously -- that would ruin the feel. But just enough to understand how truly frightened they should be. And possibly a clue to how to fight/survive/successfully avoid said weirdness.

Anyway, that's my thought.

[jjarvis]

A magic-user isn't much of a magic-user at all with no magic to use. A classical complaint is a Mu having only 1 spell, it's a silly argument of course as everyone else has 'no spells at 1st level". If "read magic" isn't a spell have it be a class ability. Maybe have a Taste Potion skill, which let's a MU identify a potion by taste (watch out for poisons). There should be something they do that is magical or they are going to feel like a NOT-magic-user until 3rd level.

[cooper]

Detect magic like elves spot secret doors and read magic like a bards ability to know about an object or like a thieves read language ability. That way Mu are like 'scholars' at low level and get the two most important 1st level spells as permanent abilities. Give them a 'wizard mark' like the spell 1x day or hold portal/wizard lock.

Or heck, give them the abilities of a sage from the DMG, or the scribe from dragon magazine.

[jasons]

I'll take another stab:
The MU starts the game as a fighter, trained for war and outfitted for mayhem. A scholar/athlete, the proto-MU has also taken his arcane studies as far as they can go. To gain access to magical powers, one must first make adequate blood sacrifice to the Dark Gods of Uttermost Night (insert source of magic here)! Blood and souls for Arioch, and all that. To make things more difficult, only XP gained from the actual slaying of monsters and whatnot will count toward the next level up to third, whereupon the character must permanently divest himself of his armor and ritually destroy his martial weapons. Reroll hp with new HD, etc...

[Morandir]

You could allow them to use 2nd level spells, but only as rituals that take extra time/components or some such. Or allow them to prepare and cast one per day as normal, but with a save vs. Spells to resist backlash that causes some horrific mutation.

[leon]

Have you talked with your players about this? The m-u is extremely weak as it is at low levels, further penalising him will make the class unplayable. And completely removing the D&D spell list, replacing it with an untested* and extremely limited spell list? Tell this to your players and see how they react. It's probable that they won't want to play a m-u.

I haven't read the book but here's something I read:

Omar’s Mistake (Arcane)
Level 3
Range: 60ft
Duration: 1d6 days
The subject’s eyes glow, and glass rattles when he is within 20ft. Dogs flee from him, cats are attracted into his presence. Members of the opposite
sex have a 1% chance to be affected as if by a charm person spell, and members of the same sex have a 1% chance to attack him for no reason. The > spell’s subject finds the color blue objectionable, and he may steal shiny items.

Who would ever cast such a useless spell, which occupies even occupies a third level spell slot? So what if it is "weird"? It will never get used during the game, making the whole point moot.

We must not forget that D&D is still a game. And a game must have fair and concise rules. Sacrificing playability in the name of "weirdness" will result in some pretty disappointed players.

[geoffrey]

Jan 11, 2011 4:50:29 GMT -6 leon said:

Have you talked with your players about this?

Yes. My players have enjoyed (and have also noted my enjoyment of) playing in my first post-Carcosa D&D campaign (a fantasy world loosely based on early 14th-century Earth). In this campaign there are NO standard monsters, NO standard magic-items, and NO standard spell-casters other than the PCs. Everything the PCs encounter is new and fresh.

Then one day one of my players said, "Hey. We'd like to get in on this, too. You have all these new monsters and stuff to play with, but my magic-user is stuck with the same old d**n magic missile, fireball, and all that. How about new spells and giving the old ones a rest?"

Cool! I'd been toying with that idea for quite a long while, but I never went forward with it (probably out of laziness). Now the players are asking for it... ;D

[geoffrey]

Thanks to everyone for their ideas in this thread. What a wealth of options!

One of the ideas I'd already adopted, that of allowing magic-users to use whatever weapons they want.

James Raggi kindly sent me a rough draft of a summoning spell he's play-testing ( lotfp.blogspot.com/2011/01/great-now-text-is-going-to-get-me-in.html ), which also I'm seriously considering giving to 1st-level magic-users. Awesome, awesome spell. And weird!

No final decisions have been made as yet. Keep those weird ideas flowing!

[crusssdaddy]

Maybe a sinister charm power of limited scope. Like you can pick 1d4 hirelings/henchman who become thralls or flunkies - they hand over their shares of treasure to the M-U, who only has to pay just enough to feed & house them. Maybe it works on a captured monster of the M-U's level or less, or on persons of lesser CHA of the opposite sex.

[leon]

Jan 11, 2011 10:01:36 GMT -6 geoffrey said:

Jan 11, 2011 4:50:29 GMT -6 leon said:

Have you talked with your players about this?

Yes. My players have enjoyed (and have also noted my enjoyment of) playing in my first post-Carcosa D&D campaign (a fantasy world loosely based on early 14th-century Earth). In this campaign there are NO standard monsters, NO standard magic-items, and NO standard spell-casters other than the PCs. Everything the PCs encounter is new and fresh.

Then one day one of my players said, "Hey. We'd like to get in on this, too. You have all these new monsters and stuff to play with, but my magic-user is stuck with the same old d**n magic missile, fireball, and all that. How about new spells and giving the old ones a rest?"

Cool! I'd been toying with that idea for quite a long while, but I never went forward with it (probably out of laziness). Now the players are asking for it... ;D

Great then. But I still think you should give them 1st level spells. And they should probably have a greater spell list than the 30(?) (from what I read the amount of spells Eldritch Wizardry has) spells provided. That's something like 4 spells/level (considering 2nd through 9th level spells), which is an extremely limited choice.

Have you taken a look at the Wizard's Spell Compendium? It has every spell ever published by TSR. I'm sure you'll find plenty of "new" spells you can use that your players never ever heard of. It's for 2E AD&D, but converting to OD&D will be very easy. You can easily find around 10-15 spells/level that suit your campaign.

[vito]

Perhaps Magic-Users get a bound spirit to command at level 2. This spirit can be summoned and dispelled freely, but it must take a physical form. Your spirit can manifest as either a companion creature or as an item.
As a companion creature, you companion spirit can appear as a person, animal, or small monster such as an imp, faerie, or homunculus. Your spirit companion does not make morale checks, and it can be called forth from its home plane or sent back with the snap of a finger.
As an item, your spirit can take the form of a weapon such as a cursed rune sword, a piece of jewelry such as a pentacle ring, or as a wand, staff, crystal ball, etc. These items will always find their way back to you if lost or discarded.
When your bound spirit is destroyed, you will lose all magical power until a new bound spirit is acquired.