Ranger Casting

[Mr. Darke]

What was the justification for Rangers being able to cast spells? I can understand druids being able to but not rangers. Maybe it is me but as I get older I seem to think ranger casting just does not fit.

[waysoftheearth]

I have no information regarding any justification, but (according to The Strategic Review, Volume 1, Number 2) an 8th level ranger can cast one 1st level cleric spell per day. A 9th level the ranger can also cast one 1st level magic-user spell per day. And so on.

Assuming relatively few campaigns actually run this long, then spell casting is reserved for powerful NPC rangers in most games.

For those PCs fortunate (or skillful) enough to achieve 8th level and beyond, I would equate a ranger's magic to "spell like powers" of woodcraft, healing, and animal husbandry. It would then come down to restricting rangers to the "right" spell selection. Magic Missile? Probably not. Detect Magic, Read Languages, Protection from Evil all seem like more suitable options to me.

Strider had some power of healing, so I personally would not be offended to see rangers given the ability to "Lay on Hands", much as the paladin already does, somewhat earlier in their career. But that is just me...

edit: fixed typo

[geoffrey]

Dec 10, 2010 21:30:33 GMT -6 Mr. Darke said:

I seem to think ranger casting just does not fit.

That's one of the things that Castles & Crusades gets right: Rangers do not cast spells.

[Finarvyn]

Dec 10, 2010 21:30:33 GMT -6 Mr. Darke said:

What was the justification for Rangers being able to cast spells? I can understand druids being able to but not rangers. Maybe it is me but as I get older I seem to think ranger casting just does not fit.

The Ranger class was clearly patterned after Aragorn from Lord of the Rings, so any justification has to come from that source.

I wonder if the author of the SR article had assess to Supplement III Edritch Wizardry, because it would make more sense to give Rangers a blend of Cleric and Druid spells rather than Cleric and Magic-user.

[tombowings]

According to Supplement I, druids were a mix of clerics of magic-users. Therefore, giving the ranger a mix of clerical and magic-user spell would indicate druid spell casting.

[Mr. Darke]

So, if the ranger was patterned after Aragorn (which was my conclusion as well) I can maybe see how casting can be a part of it. In my games though, I found giving them some sort of healing or herbalism ability seemed more like Aragorn than the classic ranger does.

I think my over all problem is the number of spellcasting classes that came later seemed to take the magic spotlight from Mages and Clerics. Something I don't want to do.

[Finarvyn]

Dec 11, 2010 15:31:49 GMT -6 Mr. Darke said:

giving them some sort of healing or herbalism ability seemed more like Aragorn than the classic ranger does.

Agreed. Healing or herbalism fits the actions of Aragorn a lot better than most spells would.

Dec 11, 2010 15:31:49 GMT -6 Mr. Darke said:

I think my over all problem is the number of spellcasting classes that came later seemed to take the magic spotlight from Mages and Clerics. Something I don't want to do.

Another valid point. As we get more and more spellcasting classes, the coolness of being a magic-user or cleric becomes less and less.

[Mr. Darke]

I have been toying with the idea of remaking the ranger based more on the idea of a 'mountain man' type. Survival, tracking and herbalism are the three basic needed things I come to and I do like the idea of some sort of favored foe or, the extra damage on the so-called 'giant-class'. But, the last two still do not feel completely like they belong in the class.

I'll play with it some but would love suggestions.

[aldarron]

Rangers are a problem altogether IMHO. Aragorn lived with Elves so that may have something to do with the magic business and while I'm sure Aragorn was the main influence, the texas "Lone Ranger" had to have had some influence too and he carried a gun...

Anywho wilderness types who fight monsters are really just regular fighters who happen to live in borderlands - that would be a lot of typical characters. A "Ranger" someone part of some formal or informal police force or border patrol would be restricted to a given area by choice. If they go off to lands beyond in search of adventure they aren't fullfilling the purpose of thier "class" anymore, becoming ex-rangers. As such, I think "ranger" works more as a background profession, like smith or town gaurd, than a character class.

[geoffrey]

Dec 11, 2010 5:32:37 GMT -6 Finarvyn said:

I wonder if the author of the SR article had assess to Supplement III Edritch Wizardry, because it would make more sense to give Rangers a blend of Cleric and Druid spells rather than Cleric and Magic-user.

The ranger was published in The Strategic Review #2, which was published before Eldritch Wizardry.

[Mr. Darke]

Dec 17, 2010 8:47:11 GMT -6 aldarron said:

Rangers are a problem altogether IMHO. Aragorn lived with Elves so that may have something to do with the magic business and while I'm sure Aragorn was the main influence, the texas "Lone Ranger" had to have had some influence too and he carried a gun...

Anywho wilderness types who fight monsters are really just regular fighters who happen to live in borderlands - that would be a lot of typical characters. A "Ranger" someone part of some formal or informal police force or border patrol would be restricted to a given area by choice. If they go off to lands beyond in search of adventure they aren't fullfilling the purpose of thier "class" anymore, becoming ex-rangers. As such, I think "ranger" works more as a background profession, like smith or town gaurd, than a character class.

I see the ranger as a mix of a special forces type and mountain man. I really never did like the later incarnations that made them more of a light-druid and backed off the hunter/warrior that the original class had.

I don't have a problem with the class as a whole I just want to get away from the spell-casting and near-druid description.

[foxroe]

I would recommend taking a look at the S&W:Complete take on the Ranger, but he isn't much different from the original/AD&D version. However, Matt Finch provides a nice background for the class that makes all of the Ranger's abilities make sense:

Rangers are the inheritors of ancient scholarship,
students of forgotten skills and lore passed on from teacher to student
over the generations, preserving the legacy through times when the
light of civilization wavered and dimmed. The Rangers retreated to the
wilderness and the outlands long ago; they seldom visit the decadent,
glittering cities, for these are places that have turned aside from much
of the lore the Rangers protect. As a Ranger, you are well-versed in the
subtle skills of the wilderness, and you are a dangerous opponent in battle.
Moreover, when you reach higher level, your studies and understanding
of ancient lore will have developed to the point where you can actually
cast spells. You are a guardian of civilization and a protector of the weak,
normally hunting the creatures of chaos in the wild places where they
lurk. You take the battle directly to the enemy, in its very lair.

[dwayanu]

Arduin Grimoire III includes a "Forrester (Woods Ranger)" class that gets only "first level druidical equivalency for healing type magiks", and that not until 50th level.

On the upside, "all Rangers can travel 33 1/3 % farther on foot each day for twice the normal number of days".

Run, Forrester, run!

(Did I mention the lifetime's supply of shrimp?)

[aldarron]

Dec 17, 2010 11:31:30 GMT -6 foxroe said:

I would recommend taking a look at the S&W:Complete take on the Ranger, but he isn't much different from the original/AD&D version. However, Matt Finch provides a nice background for the class that makes all of the Ranger's abilities make sense:

Rangers are the inheritors of ancient scholarship,
students of forgotten skills and lore passed on from teacher to student
over the generations, preserving the legacy through times when the
light of civilization wavered and dimmed. The Rangers retreated to the
wilderness and the outlands long ago; they seldom visit the decadent,
glittering cities, for these are places that have turned aside from much
of the lore the Rangers protect. As a Ranger, you are well-versed in the
subtle skills of the wilderness, and you are a dangerous opponent in battle.
Moreover, when you reach higher level, your studies and understanding
of ancient lore will have developed to the point where you can actually
cast spells. You are a guardian of civilization and a protector of the weak,
normally hunting the creatures of chaos in the wild places where they
lurk. You take the battle directly to the enemy, in its very lair.

Interesting. That's an almost perfect description of the black robed tomb gaurdian guys from "The Mummy" movies with Brendon Fraser.

[foxroe]

Dec 18, 2010 8:44:45 GMT -6 aldarron said:

Interesting. That's an almost perfect description of the black robed tomb gaurdian guys from "The Mummy" movies with Brendon Fraser.

Yes! That's exactly what I thought when I read about this over on the S&W boards. Those guys (the Maji?) were actually based on a real group from ancient Egypt called the Medjay (though not too ranger-like).

I kind of the like the idea of a secret-order of special forces living on the outskirts of civilization, protecting it from the encroaching darkness it never sees.

[Mr. Darke]

My problem with that is I see rangers more as this:



Instead of this:



I think my above idea without spellcasting fits my idea. Thoughts?

[aldarron]

Sure, I'm with you on that. The colonial era scouts/rangers (ala Rodgers Rangers) are the archetype the ranger class feels like. To me, that's in line with the idea they are simply fighters who live on the frontier and thus develop certain styles and skills appropriate to that life.

[leon]

I think the Ranger is a member of a somewhat flawed, in my opinion, design paradigm of creating a separate class for each character we read or saw somewhere and we fancied. This led to an over-abundance of PC or NPC classes, especially in the AD&D days, in The Dragon mag. But even in the OD&D days we had a similar phenomenon, not just by TSR but also by third parties.

Anyway, the class can work just as well without the spellcasting (which comes in too late anyway). I also prefer the spell-less paladin of OD&D than the AD&D one.