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dogs.
Nov 12, 2010 13:47:17 GMT -6
Post by apeloverage on Nov 12, 2010 13:47:17 GMT -6
I ran a game and one of the characters wanted a dog. However there weren't any rules for this. This is what I've come up with for the next session. Please comment.
Fighters can have a dog, but get a 10% XP penalty. It's totally loyal, doesn’t get XP, and doesn’t count as a hireling. HD1 (roll when it first takes damage), AC14, 1d4 damage, move 15.
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premmy
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 295
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dogs.
Nov 12, 2010 14:26:37 GMT -6
Post by premmy on Nov 12, 2010 14:26:37 GMT -6
Personally, I think both the XP penalty and the total loyalty are metagaming solutions to a perceived problem that's not really there.
I would rather try to operate with in-game factors: he must buy the dog for money. If done at character generation, the dog is assumed to be trained; otherwise it takes time (which translates into further living expenses and adventuring downtime). Once trained, the dog acts like a trained wardog should - follows orders, but isn't immune to fear or distraction that would normal work on a dog; and it doesn't count as a henchman.
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dogs.
Nov 12, 2010 15:24:34 GMT -6
Post by murquhart72 on Nov 12, 2010 15:24:34 GMT -6
Yep, just purchase the dog for 25 g.p. each and have it (or them) watch your back. No XP penalty or such needed. From the Monster Manual:
War Dog: AC 6, MV 12", HD 2+2, #AT 1, Dmg 2-8, Int Semi-, Align N. Fiercely loyal, ferocious and decked out in studded leather with a spiked collar.
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dogs.
Nov 13, 2010 12:34:55 GMT -6
Post by apeloverage on Nov 13, 2010 12:34:55 GMT -6
I think 25gp is too small a price for effectively a 2nd level fighter.
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premmy
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 295
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dogs.
Nov 13, 2010 15:35:19 GMT -6
Post by premmy on Nov 13, 2010 15:35:19 GMT -6
Actually, it's effectively a 2nd level fighter that never gains XP, cannot get better armour or weaponry, is unable to perform many extremely simple actions like climbing down a ladder or opening a door, and who has the intelligence of a dog.
I mean, once in combat, it won't be able to change target or perform a tactical retreat or anything of the sort.
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dogs.
Nov 13, 2010 16:34:50 GMT -6
Post by aldarron on Nov 13, 2010 16:34:50 GMT -6
Honestly, I'm having a hard time taking this thread seriously, I mean I'm about half convinced Apeloverage is playing a joke on everybody. But if not... then of course, the price of the dog is whatever the seller wants to make it, depending on in game details, the characters luck or talent at bargaining etc. set a price, any price. It doesn't matter. If the character desn't like it they can take thier gold somewhere else. Everything is always negotiable. As for any other rules, well, the dog is an npc.
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dogs.
Nov 13, 2010 22:32:28 GMT -6
Post by waysoftheearth on Nov 13, 2010 22:32:28 GMT -6
I mean, once in combat, it won't be able to change target or perform a tactical retreat or anything of the sort. And is distracted by burning oil, and is 50% likely to be distracted by food ;D
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dogs.
Nov 14, 2010 9:29:45 GMT -6
Post by harami2000 on Nov 14, 2010 9:29:45 GMT -6
And is distracted by burning oil, and is 50% likely to be distracted by food ;D A lot cheaper than the alternative "detect meal" option, that.
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dogs.
Nov 14, 2010 11:11:31 GMT -6
Post by Finarvyn on Nov 14, 2010 11:11:31 GMT -6
Honestly, I'm having a hard time taking this thread seriously, I mean I'm about half convinced Apeloverage is playing a joke on everybody. Oh, I don't know about that. I've had characters who want trained pets (dogs, falcons, etc.) and as such hoped to cash in on their combat benefits along the way (not as good as a familiar, but still nice to have) and I've struggled with the fair way to make this work well. The character who wanted to buy an "armored attack pig", well I assume he was joking. (I actually had a player ask for this and I laughed at him. Hope that doesn't make me a bad person.) Of course, my eldest daughter wanted to play a dog character when she was 6, but I guess that's another thread entirely. I suppose you could let the dog have a share of XP but not advance in levels (or advance very slowly). That might discourage anyone who is trying to beat "the system" with an unfair combat advantage.
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dogs.
Nov 14, 2010 11:40:33 GMT -6
Post by verhaden on Nov 14, 2010 11:40:33 GMT -6
AC 8 MV 9" 1 HD
And that's that.
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dogs.
Nov 14, 2010 11:42:11 GMT -6
Post by apeloverage on Nov 14, 2010 11:42:11 GMT -6
Honestly, I'm having a hard time taking this thread seriously, I mean I'm about half convinced Apeloverage is playing a joke on everybody. I'm not sure why. Presumably no one would just let Fighters cast fireball or Magic-Users wear plate armour without bothering with an appropriate penalty?
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dogs.
Nov 14, 2010 13:20:17 GMT -6
Post by cooper on Nov 14, 2010 13:20:17 GMT -6
what benefit does a dog provide that a hireling wouldn't that necessitates 10% xp penalty?
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dogs.
Nov 14, 2010 14:07:14 GMT -6
Post by James Maliszewski on Nov 14, 2010 14:07:14 GMT -6
FWIW, I've regularly allowed PCs to purchase and use trained animals as semi-henchmen in my campaigns for as long as I can remember, without any ill effects. I used to charge between 25 and 50 gp per animal, depending on the type. To my way of thinking, if a PC wishes to blow a substantial portion of his starting cash on, say, a 1 HD dog -- who can be killed, keep in mind -- rather than getting better armor or hiring a man-at-arms to accompany him, that's his decision. In my experience, trained animals aren't as useful as hirelings or henchmen, even in combat, and their attractiveness fades once the PCs reach level 2 or 3, so I don't worry about including them.
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jasmith
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 316
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dogs.
Nov 14, 2010 15:14:35 GMT -6
Post by jasmith on Nov 14, 2010 15:14:35 GMT -6
what benefit does a dog provide that a hireling wouldn't that necessitates 10% xp penalty? The DM can't use it to make smart-assed rping comments. ;D
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dogs.
Nov 14, 2010 16:05:53 GMT -6
Post by murquhart72 on Nov 14, 2010 16:05:53 GMT -6
I think 25gp is too small a price for effectively a 2nd level fighter. The price is from the AD&D Players Handbook (there were two dogs: guard for 25 and hunting for 15).
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premmy
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 295
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dogs.
Nov 14, 2010 16:53:39 GMT -6
Post by premmy on Nov 14, 2010 16:53:39 GMT -6
I'm not sure why. Presumably no one would just let Fighters cast fireball or Magic-Users wear plate armour without bothering with an appropriate penalty? Would you also issue a penalty to character who use a 10' pole to probe for traps, a mirror to peek around corners, or a rope to aid them in climbing and tie things together? Because a dog is the same thing, a piece of "equipment" anyone can buy, not a class ability restricted to a single class.
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dogs.
Nov 15, 2010 17:29:19 GMT -6
Post by apeloverage on Nov 15, 2010 17:29:19 GMT -6
Premmy, you obviously want to argue rather than answer the question, so I guess this thread is over.
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dogs.
Nov 15, 2010 17:32:55 GMT -6
Post by tombowings on Nov 15, 2010 17:32:55 GMT -6
While argumentative, premmy has a a point here that's worth considering.
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dogs.
Nov 15, 2010 17:48:22 GMT -6
Post by vito on Nov 15, 2010 17:48:22 GMT -6
What about psychic dogs? Like from that movie A Boy and His Dog?
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Nov 15, 2010 18:04:02 GMT -6
Post by Mushgnome on Nov 15, 2010 18:04:02 GMT -6
I think the larger issue here is that your "factors that make a PC more effective should logically incur an XP penalty" logic is exactly the opposite of how the D&D game is actually designed.
A PC with a high Prime Requisite is rewarded with extra XP, not penalized, for this advantage. A PC with better weapons, armor, and magic items will live longer, defeat more enemies, and advance quicker. You don't get an XP penalty for wielding a +1 sword, or riding a horse, or casting Sleep at just the right moment; you get victory, riches, and glory!
Therefore I would argue that a player smart enough to train a guard dog should be rewarded, not penalized, for excellent game play. Having a badass pet makes it that much more likely he will survive to 2nd level. Your argument to the opposite is very much a modern "fair for everyone" notion of "balance," I think.
Also, as a real-life dog owner, I can tell you that the cons nearly (but not quite) outweigh the pros, without any meta-gaming checks and balances...
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premmy
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 295
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dogs.
Nov 15, 2010 18:05:08 GMT -6
Post by premmy on Nov 15, 2010 18:05:08 GMT -6
Premmy, you obviously want to argue rather than answer the question, so I guess this thread is over. Only there was no question. You didn't post one. You just posted something you've done in your game, and asked us to comment. "Comment" also includes disagreement, you know.
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dogs.
Nov 15, 2010 19:36:12 GMT -6
Post by apeloverage on Nov 15, 2010 19:36:12 GMT -6
I've deleted this site from my toolbar. So I guess you win.
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dogs.
Nov 15, 2010 19:44:47 GMT -6
Post by Mushgnome on Nov 15, 2010 19:44:47 GMT -6
I've deleted this site from my toolbar. So I guess you win. 431 posts and you're quitting over a dog? Have an exalt and please don't leave us!
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