The Greyhawk Druid

[leon]

It's fascinating how you discover stuff in D&D you thought you knew but are in fact different. I didn't pay attention to the Druid entry in Greyhawk because I thought I knew about the class. But I forgot that Eldritch Wizardry came afterwards and the Druid as we know him didn't exist when Greyhawk was published. Let's see:

DRUIDS: These men are priests of a neutral-type religion, and as such they differ
in armor class and hit dice, as well as in movement capability, and are combination
clerics/magic-users. Magic-use ranges from 5th through 7th level, while clericism ranges
from 7th through 9th level. Druids may change shape three times per day, once each to
any reptile, bird and animal respectively, from size as small as a raven to as large as a
small bear. They will generally (70%) be accompanied by numbers of barbaric followers
(fighters), with a few higher-level leaders (2-5 fighters of 2nd-5th levels) and a body of
normal men (20-50).

So this NPC is quite different from the standard druid. It's not a cleric subclass with its own spell list but a combination of MU/cleric. If we turned this to a player character it would be some sort of multiclassed character + special ability (change shape) instead of a separate class. I wonder what the thinking behind this NPC "class".

I am considering something along these lines in general. Instead of creating different specific classes, couldn't the combination of the "core four" (thief included) cover most archetypes?

[coffee]

It very well could do.

Do let us know what else you come up with along these lines!

[simrion]

In the beginning of Andre Norton's Quag Keep the Fighter (Milo I believe?) encounters a Druid in the Tavern he visits. He finds the presence of the filthy wild prist as being distasteful...

[kesher]

Oct 13, 2010 12:25:36 GMT -6 simrion said:

In the beginning of Andre Norton's Quag Keep the Fighter (Milo I believe?) encounters a Druid in the Tavern he visits. He finds the presence of the filthy wild prist as being distasteful...

And the Druid shows up later, too, summoning some sort of weird, demonic giant weasels to attack the party. I always thought it strange that the Druid in that book is actually chaotic...

[coffee]

Oct 13, 2010 14:31:56 GMT -6 kesher said:

I always thought it strange that the Druid in that
book is actually chaotic...

Yeah, that bothered me also.

[vito]

Oct 11, 2010 17:48:36 GMT -6 leon said:

I am considering something along these lines in general. Instead of creating different specific classes, couldn't the combination of the "core four" (thief included) cover most archetypes?

I always thought that paladins should just be multiclassed fighters/clerics rather than a discrete class or subclass

I guess when you combine the cleric and thief you could get some kind of holy assassin? Hashashin?

[kenmeister]

I had fun with this back a while ago too:

magic-user/thief: ninja
magic-user/fighter: monk
magic-user/cleric: druid
fighter/thief: swashbuckler
fighter/cleric: paladin
cleric/thief: an untapped archetype!

[leon]

Oct 17, 2010 10:41:20 GMT -6 kenmeister said:

I had fun with this back a while ago too:

magic-user/thief: ninja
magic-user/fighter: monk
magic-user/cleric: druid
fighter/thief: swashbuckler
fighter/cleric: paladin
cleric/thief: an untapped archetype!

Pretty good ideas there. I'd also say:
magic-user/thief: bard
magic-user/fighter: what it says really, like Elric.
mu/cleric/fighter: Ranger
cleric/thief: High Priest of every real world organised religion throughout history. ;D

[tombowings]

I just noticed something.

Near the top page 13 of Eldritch Wizardry, my copy says: "Magic-Users (Druids)" rather than Clerics (Druids). I'm not sure if this is Is this a just typo or druid that were once a magic-user subclass rather than a cleric subclass and there was a change at the last second.

Any thoughts?

[Deleted]

It definitely says on page 1 that druids are a cleric sub-class. Since they used MU spells as a monster, there might have been some question about whether they ought to be a cleric or a MU sub-class.

[tombowings]

Yes, I realize that druids are a sub-class of clerics, but I'm not entirely sure that was always the case based on page 13 of Eldritch Wizardry.

[aldarron]

The thing that has always bothered me about the druid, is that its a specific kind of "priest" from a particular culture. But as described in this thread, one can see them as something else entirely, a kind of shamen who deals neither with gods nor with magic, but with the animistic forces of nature.

[Deleted]

Nov 1, 2010 11:28:46 GMT -6 aldarron said:

But as described in this thread, one can see them as something else entirely, a kind of shaman who deals neither with gods nor with magic, but with the animistic forces of nature.

I agree. Either way, the Greyhawk druid is my favorite - I prefer them enigmatic, solitary, & unorganized. I would personally keep the druid as its own separate "sub-class":

Druids have the ability to cast magic-user spells of 4th level & below, as well as the ability to cast cleric spells of 5th level & below. At 1st level, Druids gain the ability to change shape 3x/day (as listed per Greyhawk, p. 34). At the 8th level of experience, druids attract followers (those listed per Greyhawk, p. 34). Druids do not gain the turn undead ability of clerics. Druids must be Neutral in alignment - however, they may lean "Lawful" or "Chaotic" regarding their actions. Druids may wear leather armor & use wooden shields. They may wield clubs, daggers, hand axes, oil, sickles, slings, staves, & swords (short) in combat. Druids may use any magical items which are usable by “all classes” (excluding armor & weapons prohibited by class), as well as items normally usable by both clerics & magic-users. They advance in experience points as follows: 1 - 4000; 2 - 8000; 3 - 16000; 4 - 32000; 5 - 60000; 6 - 100000; 7 - 175000; 8 - 250000; 9 - 325000. Druids advance in spellcasting ability as clerics, using both the hit dice & saving throws of magic-users. They retain spellbooks as do magic-users.

[Red Baron]

Very nice write up.

[scalydemon]

On a related note I got to meet Dennis Sustare at NTX RPGCON a few years ago. Very cool guy. He is listed as the 'original Druid' in some of the old books and is the 1st person to actually play a Druid from my understanding