No raise dead for hobbits?

[tavis]

Last night we had an elf die in the White Sandbox for the first time since the party reached a point where raise dead became something they could acquire. We remembered the AD&Dism that elves couldn't be resurrected, so checked the text only to find that "This spell works with Men, Elves, and Dwarves only."

Questions:
- do you think this is intended to specifically exclude hobbits and other unusual races?

- if so, does this contradict "there is no reason that players cannot be allowed to play as virtually anything" - i.e., level limits and limits on coming back from the dead provide reasons not to play non-humans?

- in AD&D, do you reckon Gygax changed this to elves in order to balance a race that otherwise seems to have a lot of advantages?

[coffee]

I think hobbits were excluded simply because Gygax didn't know of anybody playing one. I.e.; it was intended specifically for common player characters and none other.

"You want to play a Balrog? Fine! But when he's dead, play a normal character, willya?"

Anyway, that's the impression I get.

[Falconer]

I agree. I know there are some people who share OD&D’s attitude of “why would anyone ever want to play a hobbit?” In that case, include hobbits among the “non-normal” races that are fine for an exception but once they’re dead they’re dead. For me, I like them as a common PC, so I would allow them to be raised. Anyway, at least according to Tolkien, hobbits are human (or at least, mostly human), so for the bigger questions of life like whether they have the same kinds of souls as humans, I would definitely say yes.

As for Elves, perhaps that is yet another Tolkien element that was incorporated into AD&D (like the Hobbit subraces, for example).

[JMiskimen]

Personally, I prefer to look at the Raise Dead spell as something that is specifically aimed toward the younger races, particularly men (and possibly to include hobbits.) The older races, such as dwarves and elves, are already blessed with longevity of life, and as such, are generally/allegedly less prone to rash life-ending decisions -- or so in theory, excluding the deeds of player characters. My take on it is that perhaps it has something to due with the natural lifespan of the being in question. Of course, this is only my explanation for the spells exclusion of elves in AD&D, to which I also included dwarves as they too have exceedingly long natural lives.

However, now that I think about it, humanoid races such as orcs and goblins have shorter lifespans than those of men or hobbits; so one might ask, by this train of thought, if they receive some sort of bonus to be raised from the dead or otherwise resurrected, providing they had some means to access the spell?

meh ... just rambling away in hopes of contributing in some fashion ...

carry on. Nothing to see here.