Question from an OD&D newb...sort of

[edsan]

I wasn't around in the ol'days of OD&D and have never read the books except for cursory glances at a compiled version of the rules.

I was just curious on which supplement(s) specifically introduced variable dice for weapon and monster damage as well as different Hit Dice for the various classes, instead of the original d6's + maybe a modifier for everything?

[Deleted]

Greyhawk introduced variable damage and hit dice. It also introduced the thief class, exceptional strength percentages, and a variety of other concepts still used in the game.

[Zulgyan]

Yes, it was Greyhawk. And the rest acommodated to that afterwards.

[edsan]

Cheers.

I just needed to know to understand where the differences between S&W's "Core" and "Whitebox" versions came from exactly.

[Deleted]

You seem to have the basics down pat.

TLBB had 3 classes: fighting-man, magic-user, cleric.

Everyone, PC and NPC alike, rolled d6 for hit dice. A PC did not necessarily, however, gain an additional hit die with increased level; sometimes it was just added hit points.

Everyone used the same "to hit" table if you used the alternate combat system and not Chainmail combat, though the fighting-men progressed up the table faster.

All weapons rolled 1d6 for damage. Thus, a dagger and a 2-handed sword did the same damage.

With few exceptions, monsters rolled 1d6 for damage and had only single attack.

Character ability scores carried few of the bonuses associated with post-Greyhawk versions of the game, and the few bonuses in the rules are minimal. A high strength score for a fighting man, for example, granted that PC an XP bonus for level progression but no bonus "to hit" or "damage". Of course, this makes even a lowly (by many gamer's standards) +1 sword a valued magic item.

There are more and subtler differences but perhaps this may help. Feel free to ask more specific questions if you have any.

[Finarvyn]

What's interesting to me is that the white box starts with all d6 dice and certain elements from Chaimnail (such as Fighting Capability) are present.

Greyhawk (which I believe was actually written second but published first) moves to the new dice system and totally embraces the "alternate" combat system.

Blackmoor (written first but published second) goes back to FC and sets up classes with the old boxed set in mind.

From there the systems are blurred somewhat. At no point is the entire game presented in the old fomat, which is a little frustrating since I like to run a more Chainmail system sometimes and not everything is "officially" put together to be consistent with Chainmail.

[thegreyelf]

That's okay, Finarvyn. S&S has you covered on that end

[harami2000]

[OT; sorry, Fin'...]

Mar 24, 2009 11:41:28 GMT -6 Finarvyn said:

Greyhawk (which I believe was actually written second but published first

[/b]) moves to the new dice system and totally embraces the "alternate" combat system.

Blackmoor (written first but published second[/b]) goes back to FC and sets up classes with the old boxed set in mind.[/quote]
Is there anything missing regarding the order in which these were "written" in the interview with Tim Kask on grognardia.blogspot.com/2008/09/interview-tim-kask-part-i.html ?
...
One day, after I had been there a couple of months, Gary and Brian were waiting for me that morning when I got to Gary’s house (we worked out of his basement) with what looked to be a bushel basket of scrap papers, like someone had cleaned out their desk, and sly smiles on their faces. I should have known something was up by those smiles…

Dropping the basket at my feet, they announced that it contained the next supplement and that I should pitch right in. After stirring it a bit, I asked if they were serious, and they assured me that they were. It took the better part of two days to sort it out, and another day or two to try to make some sense of it. When I reported back about a week later that what I had found was contradictory, confusing, incomplete, partially incomprehensible, lacking huge bits and pieces and mostly gibberish, they laughed and said they knew that. Both of them had already come to the same conclusion that if I was to be the editor, here was my acid test, and that neither one of them certainly wanted to do it. So over the next several weeks, I sorted, filled in, added and deleted. What came out was about 60% my work, 30% Dave Arneson’s and the remainder came from Gary and Rob Kuntz. I was reminded by Gary that the day I brought the finished manuscript in to him and Brian that I threatened to quit if ever I was given another “project” (read “basket case”) such as this one.

+ agree with second feedback comment re. FFC-ditching.

(Nicely set up interview, IMO)

[harami2000]

Mar 24, 2009 13:38:54 GMT -6 thegreyelf said:

That's okay, Finarvyn. S&S has you covered on that end

Heh....

[Finarvyn]

Mar 24, 2009 13:38:54 GMT -6 thegreyelf said:

That's okay, Finarvyn. S&S has you covered on that end

Hey, I know but it's just so odd that they never really put all of the parts together in the official supplements.

[thegreyelf]

So harami, is that quote in reference to Greyhawk or Blackmoor?

[Deleted]

I do not see where Fighting Capability is ever mentioned in Blackmoor?

However in Greyhawk, the Fighting Capability of thieves, higher level magic users and higher level clerics are listed.

[coffee]

Mar 25, 2009 17:12:43 GMT -6 @rabbit said:

I do not see where Fighting Capability is ever mentioned in Blackmoor?

It's not.

In fact, Blackmoor flat out states that

Only the Alternate Combat and Hit Dice systems will be considered for both sub-classes, monks and assassins.