Should clerics be immune to level drain?

[geoffrey]

First of all, let me note that (with one exception) I find all the arguments against level drain unpersuasive. "Pity the poor, undeserving players!" particularly goes nowhere with me. So here's why undead draining levels from clerics just doesn't work for me:

The cardinal enemies of the undead are Lawful clerics. As they rise in level, they get better at turning undead. Ironically, though, the more wights, wraiths, spectres, and vampires that clerics confront, the less able the clerics are to turn them!

What do you think about making clerics immune to level drain?

[fitz]

Why would they be immune? And why should they? They already have access to anti-undead protection that other classes don't (cf. Protection From Evil spell)

[geoffrey]

Sept 5, 2009 16:36:01 GMT -6 fitz said:

Why would they be immune? And why should they? They already have access to anti-undead protection that other classes don't (cf. Protection From Evil spell)

It's kind of like the cleric's gods are playing mind games with him:

"Go and destroy the undead, even though in so doing you'll get less and less good at it. Not only will you be less able to turn the undead, we'll give you fewer spells, too. Godspeed!"

[coffee]

The message the gods are teaching the clerics is this: Strike first.

Just meeting undead doesn't make the clerics worse at dealing with them. Getting hit does that. So if they strike first and take out the undead before they get hit, they won't get worse (and since they'll get experience, they will actually get better.)

Remember, be ready to turn! And let the fighters take the front rank!


If this goes on, Clerics will be immune to death, too -- after all, they have a 'raise dead' spell...

[geoffrey]

Full disclosure: I have no dog in this hunt.

First, there are no clerics in my Carcosa campaign, and none of the three types of Carcosan undead drain levels, anyway.

Second, in the more traditional D&D campaign I'm planning, there are either no undead, or they are vanishingly rare.

So in neither case will the issue actually come up in my games (except perhaps in the rarest of circumstances). I'm just thinking out loud, here.

[waysoftheearth]

I am not in favour of "total immunity" in any flavour. It eliminates risk, and therefore the excitement and reward that risk generates.

Take it to its most ridiculous extreme; Not only is the cleric immune to level drain, he cannot he harmed by undead at all. In fact, undead are vaporised instantly if the cleric so wishes, revealing little piles of treasure amid their smouldering ashes.

There's no longer any risk to the cleric. It lessens his whole experience of the game.

I would far prefer a less than absolute effect. Say, at a certain level, clerics effectively have a continuous, personal, protection from evil effect with regard to undead -- so long as they have their holy symbol about them of course!

[Haldo Bramwise]

Sept 5, 2009 16:47:41 GMT -6 geoffrey said:

Go and destroy the undead, even though in so doing you'll get less and less good at it. Not only will you be less able to turn the undead, we'll give you fewer spells, too. Godspeed!"

Gosh, the longer I pastor, the churches get smaller and the pay gets less. Yep, sound about right to me. ;D

No, really, of all the classes, clerics should understand the threat fo undead the most. I don't think they should be immune.

[kenmeister]

The negative plane protection spell added for clerics in Unearthed Arcana is really what you are getting at.

[machfront]

Sept 5, 2009 20:42:33 GMT -6 Haldo Bramwise said:

No, really, of all the classes, clerics should understand the threat fo undead the most. I don't think they should be immune.

Exactly.
Immune? No. Prepared? Yes!

[coffee]

Sept 22, 2009 14:08:07 GMT -6 kenmeister said:

The negative plane protection spell added for clerics in Unearthed Arcana is really what you are getting at.

This makes sense, although I don't recall the specifics of the spell. I'll have to dig that book out and take a look.

Although I'd probably want to call it something else. I don't like the whole "these are the planes, whether you like it or not!" attitude of AD&D. Sure, I know they were introduced in The Dragon back in the OD&D day, but it's still only one interpretation of cosmology.

I'd allow such a spell as a "Life Protection", though, without quibble.

[chgowiz]

Maybe allow the cleric a Save vs. Spells to resist the draining, but it takes him out of the fight for awhile?