sham
Level 6 Magician
Posts: 385
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Post by sham on Mar 4, 2008 8:07:49 GMT -6
Not to bury my other question, but another bit I'd like to get input on is HD per level, and HP.
How do you interpret the 'Dice for Accumulative Hits' column for each class?
Are HPs added up, using the listed '+ x' parts each time they appear? This would yield more than intended, I assume.
Are HPs added up, using the listed '+ x' part as a bonus given to each die count category? For example, M-U HPs at Wizard levels 12-14 increase by 1 pip only per level until 15, when a die and a +1 are gained.
Do you reroll total HPs each level?
Do you reroll total HPs each level, and let the player keep his old HP if that total is greater?
I was thinking of clarifying the HP column and splitting it into two seperate columns, Hits Gained and Total Hits by level.
Lastly, how do you handle levels that are higher than those listed?
Input?
I'm trying to keep this to M&M only, btw.
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Post by Zulgyan on Mar 4, 2008 8:41:39 GMT -6
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sham
Level 6 Magician
Posts: 385
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Post by sham on Mar 4, 2008 9:27:07 GMT -6
As always, thanks Zulgyan. I missed those threads as well this morning (not enough coffee apparently).
I've copied one of your posts and will be using the OEPT verison.
"1. When do I roll for hit points?
Upon gaining a level.
2. What do I roll?
Instead of rolling 1 die and add it to the previous result, as in all later editions of D&D, you roll all the dice from the scratch. That means, if you reach level 4 of the F-M you roll all 4 dice.
3. What happens if the result turns to be lower than my previous amount?
You just keep the previous result."
Very nicely written, too, I might add.
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Post by Wothbora on Mar 13, 2008 10:30:44 GMT -6
Here is an interesting quote from Dave Arneson in the Introduction of The First Fantasy Campaign that really makes me wonder what they were doing with hit points...
Almost sounds like a percentage based Hit Point System that was treated like Attributes: "You get what you get, some are better than others and some are a LOT worse." Building a Hit Point System on up to 100 also explains how the Blackmoor "hit location" tables might have worked...
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jrients
Level 6 Magician
Posts: 411
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Post by jrients on Mar 13, 2008 11:51:14 GMT -6
Incidentally, for my own uses I decided that rolling hit dice at the start of each session is the way to go for PCs. I like the idea of characters passing on a particular dungeon expedition simply because they're feeling unusually puny. Just one more variable for the old risk/reward calculation. Also, that's one less stat to track from session to session.
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Post by Zulgyan on Mar 13, 2008 12:25:41 GMT -6
What I don't like about that approach of "every session roll" is that when a PC rolls low, he might play in an extremely cowardly manner, trying to avoid any risk, staying at the safety of the tavern, and holding it as much as he can, waiting for the session to end! If you roll each level, and you roll low, you will be eager for adventure in order to gain the new level and recover from the bad rolling.
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jrients
Level 6 Magician
Posts: 411
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Post by jrients on Mar 13, 2008 12:37:49 GMT -6
What I don't like about that approach of "every session roll" is that when a PC rolls low, he might play in an extremely cowardly manner, trying to avoid any risk, staying at the safety of the tavern, and holding it as much as he can, waiting for the session to end! That's what I'm looking for. "Um, my Swashbuckler has a cold or something, so I'm gonna send his Swordsman henchman this time."
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Post by Zulgyan on Mar 13, 2008 12:45:46 GMT -6
If that is the intended effect desired, then it's totally ok.
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Post by ffilz on Mar 13, 2008 12:52:58 GMT -6
I kind of like that idea of re-rolling hit points every session. The nice thing is that it takes the single biggest random effect in the game and reduces the impact of a bad roll. Sure, sometimes, you will roll low (and perhaps chose to skip a session with that character), but in general, you will roll something decent and play with it.
Hmm, by the same token, it could be used to cut down on GM prep, don't pre-roll hit points for monsters.
And it solves the problem about the monster who gets away wounded. Between sessions he heals up, and has a new hit point total next week. No record keeping. No wondering if he can find a cleric to heal him. Clerical healing becomes something purely for extending the capability of your fighters within a session. And perhaps it would become a little less relied on, and the cleric can actually take some other cool spells also.
Frank
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Post by Zulgyan on Mar 13, 2008 13:45:19 GMT -6
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Post by Finarvyn on Mar 13, 2008 21:13:16 GMT -6
Here is an interesting quote from Dave Arneson in the Introduction of The First Fantasy Campaign that really makes me wonder what they were doing with hit points... Almost sounds like a percentage based Hit Point System that was treated like Attributes: "You get what you get, some are better than others and some are a LOT worse." Building a Hit Point System on up to 100 also explains how the Blackmoor "hit location" tables might have worked... And it also seems similar to Arneson's Adventures in Fantasy RPG as well. It seems odd to allow that much variance between characters (some roll 04 and others 97 or some such) but maybe back then gamers didn't worry about that stuff. A poor roll might have been "just the breaks of the game" and you played though it.....
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sham
Level 6 Magician
Posts: 385
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Post by sham on Mar 15, 2008 9:10:34 GMT -6
Here is an interesting quote from Dave Arneson in the Introduction of The First Fantasy Campaign that really makes me wonder what they were doing with hit points... Almost sounds like a percentage based Hit Point System that was treated like Attributes: "You get what you get, some are better than others and some are a LOT worse." Building a Hit Point System on up to 100 also explains how the Blackmoor "hit location" tables might have worked... And it also seems similar to Arneson's Adventures in Fantasy RPG as well. It seems odd to allow that much variance between characters (some roll 04 and others 97 or some such) but maybe back then gamers didn't worry about that stuff. A poor roll might have been "just the breaks of the game" and you played though it..... That's confusing and wide open for interpretation, and to me seems illogical...but I'm approaching this from the viewpoint of someone who has accepted AD&D conventions for decades. Nevertheless, I do find that passage interesting!
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sham
Level 6 Magician
Posts: 385
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Post by sham on Mar 15, 2008 9:14:10 GMT -6
Incidentally, for my own uses I decided that rolling hit dice at the start of each session is the way to go for PCs. I like the idea of characters passing on a particular dungeon expedition simply because they're feeling unusually puny. Just one more variable for the old risk/reward calculation. Also, that's one less stat to track from session to session. Jeff, I always enjoy your opinions, and normally agree with them. I love the 'spirit' of this interpretation, but I'm afraid my players would kill me if I used this rule...especially given that we are able to actually meet so seldomly that a bad roll would be disheartening. Now, if they had a stable of PC's, or some hardy Retainers (as you mentioned before), that might lessen the blow of a bad roll. Still, an interesting way to interpret one of the more vague 'rules' in the LBB.
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Post by makofan on Mar 25, 2008 15:21:59 GMT -6
What if you didn't roll your hit points on an adventure until you were actually damaged? I think that would be cool.
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Post by Finarvyn on Mar 26, 2008 6:54:42 GMT -6
If all HD were d6 based and all monster/weapon damage were also d6 based, you could get rid of the "hit dice" concept altogether and just call 'em "hits." This would pre-suppose that everyone rolled "average" numbers on all dice, which is fair although not realistic. A 4th level Fighting Man (Hero) could take 4 "hits". A 7th level Magic-user (Enchanter) could also take 4 "hits". Hmmm. I think I've de-evolved us back into Chainmail......
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Post by ffilz on Mar 26, 2008 10:03:10 GMT -6
Hmm, what would you do about the +1 etc?
You might be able to do something where a +N to your hit dice is a save of 1-N on a d6 against taking a hit. Not sure if it's a one time save or gets to be used as long as it succeeds, or gets to be used until it succeeds once.
By this token, the +2 ogres get to damage would be a 2 in 6 chance of a 2nd hit.
Frank
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Post by codeman123 on Jul 21, 2008 0:32:01 GMT -6
wow.. i know this is an old thread but i just had to say i loved Fiv's hits thing... thats awesome..
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Post by Random on Jul 21, 2008 9:50:02 GMT -6
I kinda like the roll at the beginning of combat method for PC hit dice (someone here suggested it, geoffrey maybe?) where you just throw the dice on the table and there's your hp.
I mean, I'm gonna roll on the spot for the monsters (as Zul does), so they roll on the spot for their characters. The hit points will represent a combination of luck, stamina, and skill.
Losing less than a die worth of hit points represents failing luck, fatigue, bruises, etc.
Losing enough hit points to take away one of your HD represents an actual wound.
After combat, your wounds remain, but you get to take a breather. That means next combat you only get to roll whatever hit dice you didn't lose last time (unless you've been healed or resting for so many days).
For characters with bonus hp (starting fighting-man, chars with con bonuses, and so forth), I'd put those extra hit points on paper, to use when the dice are gone.
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Post by coffee on Jul 21, 2008 10:00:02 GMT -6
For characters with bonus hp (starting fighting-man, chars with con bonuses, and so forth), I'd put those extra hit points on paper, to use when the dice are gone. That's awesome! It would show how such characters are tougher than the rest, that they have this extra reserve to fall back on when things get tough. I like it.
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Post by Random on Jul 21, 2008 10:55:00 GMT -6
Thanks. It just seemed the easiest way to track them.
I makes the physical dice you roll on the table equal to the hit dice on your paper, with your +'s written aside for that fraction of extra staying power.
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Post by Random on Jul 21, 2008 11:00:23 GMT -6
Also, I know a lot of people don't like the random hit points all the time, but I personally think it still allows for deadly combat, while giving low level characters a fighting chance without healing abilities.
Oh, you took five damage (out of four hp total), then you have been vanquished!
Oh, you took two damage (out of three hp total), then won the fight? You're still good to go (as opposed to having only 1 hp) for the next battle (and can roll again).
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Post by Random on Jul 21, 2008 11:21:42 GMT -6
Another brainstorm.
Since damage can be taken outside of combat (traps for example), that needs to be handled as well, and rolling with it just like combat might work fine.
But, I personally think traps should be deadly, so here's my idea on it:
Roll HD when damage from a trap will be suffered. Instead of taking away from the highest hit die first (the way I would do it during combat), take away any hit dice that match damage dice done by the trap.
So, a fighting-man gets hit by a swinging blade, and rolls his 2 hit dice, a 5 and a 6 (pretty lucky). DM rolls a die for trap damage, a 5. The character suffers a wound, even though in combat he wouldn't in that case.
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Post by blackbarn on Jul 22, 2008 1:24:13 GMT -6
If all HD were d6 based and all monster/weapon damage were also d6 based, you could get rid of the "hit dice" concept altogether and just call 'em "hits." This would pre-suppose that everyone rolled "average" numbers on all dice, which is fair although not realistic. A 4th level Fighting Man (Hero) could take 4 "hits". A 7th level Magic-user (Enchanter) could also take 4 "hits". Hmmm. I think I've de-evolved us back into Chainmail...... That's not necessarily bad, and I like the idea. It simplifies things a lot.
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Post by dwayanu on Jul 22, 2008 2:38:38 GMT -6
That works dandy, in my experience, except ...
D&D can be about attrition even at low levels. A point lost here, another there, they add up. Get too gross, and you lose the "nuisance" encounters such as big bugs and pitfalls. A Lord can no longer die a "death of a thousand cuts" (literally 30 to 40 on average, but you get the idea). Just 10 "hits" of any sort and he's pushing up daisies.
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Post by Random on Jul 22, 2008 6:12:32 GMT -6
Also, if you simplified to just hits, where would bonus hp come into play?
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