Man to Man resolution option

[arcadayn]

Lets say you have a 5th level fighting man attacking a 3rd level guard captain. Its my understanding that the 5th level guy gets five rolls on the Man to Man table, and the 3rd level guy 3. It would seem in a situation like this, that whoever gets the first attack has a serious advantage that doesn't seem to take into account the skill of the defender. Now, I have yet to play OD&D using Chainmail, so this is just my impression not based on any acutal play.

Has anyone tried subracting the lower HD total from the higher to determine number of attacks? For example, in the situation above, the 5th level fighting man would get 3 attacks (one + the difference in HD) and the 3rd level guard would get just one attack. This would reduce the number of die rolls, give combat advantage to the combatant with the higher HD total, and make first strike less important.

What do you guys think?

[kesher]

I think that's a fine tweak---it all just kinda depends on the level of heroics you like in your game.

FWIW, I view the combat system, even MtM, as being so abstract that the only real indication of defensive skill (as opposed to just wearing armor) is level. I mean, if you look at that chart, you have simply a type of weapon vs. a type of armor---the only thing that tells you one person is better than another in any meaningful way is level. The catch is that its abstractness assumes an even competence in attack and defense for each individual combatant.

Which, if that was an issue (and now I'm roaming away from your question), you could also have characters (maybe just Fighting Men) choose to attack or defend at their actual level, and do the other at, say a level lower or higher. Or they could start out the same at first level, and then only one at a time raises each new level, with a default of at no more than a two level gap between them.

Or something like that...

[cooper]

Man to man does not allow multiple attacks as you roll 2d6 to score a kill. Your option are chainmail, fantasy combat chart, or d&d (aka man to man) 3rd edition page 31, "roll two dice, score equal to or greater than the number shown kills [1 hit]"

Using the man to man chart both would only be allowed 1 attack per round (2d6 roll) and would require 5 hits and 3 hits respectively to remove from battle. Viola! Od&d except with "averaged" damage and hit points instead of variable (d6 hp and d6 dmg) and a 2d6 instead of a d20.


Is that getting to your question, or do I misunderstand?

Using the Fantasy Combat table you would roll 2d6 hero vs. hero (with some modifiers for level difference) and a single roll by either side determines who would be killed.

You are conflating man to man rules with chainmail rules.

Using Chainmail as modified by 0d&d which is used when fighting 0-level creatures the 5th level fighter gets 5d6 dmg the 3rd level fighter gets 3d6. Cumulative hits to kill.

[arcadayn]

Cooper - I guess I'm basing my resolution off of the information regarding Fighting Capability in the Chainmail Combat With OD&D pdf . However, I do have questions on the resolution methods you mentioned.

"Your option are chainmail, fantasy combat chart, or d&d (aka man to man) 3rd edition page 31, "roll two dice, score equal to or greater than the number shown kills [1 hit]" I'm sorry I'm a bit of a newb and am slightly confused by your reference. Which 3rd edtion OD&D book are you referring to? I found a reference to Melee (though it is referring to shipboard combat) on page 31 of book 3, The Underworld and Wilderness Adventures


"Using the man to man chart both would only be allowed 1 attack per round (2d6 roll) and would require 5 hits and 3 hits respectively to remove from battle. Viola! Od&d except with "averaged" damage and hit points instead of variable (d6 hp and d6 dmg) and a 2d6 instead of a d20. " So, level only effects hp and not fighting capability?

"Using Chainmail as modified by 0d&d which is used when fighting 0-level creatures the 5th level fighter gets 5d6 dmg the 3rd level fighter gets 3d6. Cumulative hits to kill. "
Again, I apologize for my lack of knowledge, but where do you find the rulings for Chainmail as modified by OD&D? The closest reference I could find was in Chainmail p. 30 which gives rules for Heros fighting in Mass Combat (i.e Chainmail).

Thank you both for the reply!

[aldarron]

Arcadayn - I agree with Kesher that there's no reason I know of you couldn't play it that way. The Man to Man system was not developed with "levels" in mind, but was initially meant for fights between equals and there's no real guidlines in OD&D for how best to implement them.

Coopers method is also a fairly good one, except most players dislike losing a HD instead of HP (this thread explores that approach odd74.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=chainmail&thread=2915&page=1 ), and it works well as long as you are using levels (life levels as they used to sometimes call them) regardless of class as Cooper does, instead of Fighting Capability to determine your dice, but gets more problematic if you are using the OD&D Fighting Capability. Even so the CHAINMAIL method of attack/counterattack is a good one to follow both to make it more cinematic and to make it seem fairer. Thus you can alternate attacks in the mrlee phase of a round - attacker then defender, a then d, a then d, a, a, - so the 5th level attacker gets two "free" attack rolls at the end with no chance of parry or counter attack. If both survive the sequence starts over in the next round.

[arcadayn]

Aug 3, 2010 20:03:44 GMT -6 aldarron said:

Even so the CHAINMAIL method of attack/counterattack is a good one to follow both to make it more cinematic and to make it seem fairer. Thus you can alternate attacks in the mrlee phase of a round - attacker then defender, a then d, a then d, a, a, - so the 5th level attacker gets two "free" attack rolls at the end with no chance of parry or counter attack. If both survive the sequence starts over in the next round.

That is a very cool idea. I really need to get a group running OD&D so I can try all this stuff out. I'm finding the nuances and customizability of Chainmail to be more and more compelling as I fiddle with it. Man, this stuff is addictive!!!

[kesher]

Man, this stuff is addictive!!!

Ain't it, though?

And, as always, aldarron coughs up an entirely new and cool way of using that stuff...

[coffee]

Actually, you can have more than one attack in Man-to-Man; it depends on weapon length/speed.

This is discussed on pages 25-26 of Chainmail.

[kesher]

And, as always, coffee finds a detail everyone else overlooked...